112: Listener Questions

This week, we reach into our bag of Listener Questions and pontificate on such curiosities as: Who would we want to be and what skills would we want to learn if we could step into an alternate reality? Would Danny DeVito make an intriguing Wolverine? Which are the best programming-related movies and shows? And, we all laugh a little nervously as Tim shares just how much time he's clearly spent figuring out how to get rid of a dead body.

Follow the show and be sure to join the discussion on Discord! Our website is workingcode.dev and we're @WorkingCodePod on Twitter and Instagram. New episodes drop weekly on Wednesday.

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With audio editing and engineering by ZCross Media.


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[00:00:00] Tim: I mean, apparently human flesh tastes like pork. I mean, sailors, sailors that would get like, you know, they'd get the doldrums and they, they didn't get any food. They would start to eat each other, cannibalize each other. So they called it long pork.

[00:00:14] Adam: This episode got real weird

[00:00:38] Intro

[00:00:38] Adam: Okay, here we go. It is show number 112, and on today's show we are going to take more listener questions. Actually, we're going to use listener questions that you guys submitted for our episode 100. Spectacular. There were quite a few that we didn't get to, and they were good questions, so we didn't wanna just leave 'em hanging there.

[00:00:53] Adam: We're gonna come back and answer a few more. So, we'll do that after we do our tramps and fails. But first, as usual, we'll start with our tramps and fails. And Carol, why don't you go first?

[00:01:04] Carol's Failure

[00:01:04] Carol: Yeah, I'm gonna kick us off with a giant failure. So, um,groceries are expensive and I do a really bad job of shopping and when I do, we tend to not eat everything that we buy and we end up wasting food, which I hate doing. So I committed to not eating out any this week and. Groceries, which again, let me reiterate, are expensive right now.

[00:01:29] Tim: Barry, have you seen eggs?

[00:01:31] Carol: Yeah. And we even went to post and bought groceries this time because they're cheaper on post than they are off post. So

[00:01:38] Tim: that's a

[00:01:39] Carol: yeah, on base. Yeah. So like at the commissary, things are just cheaper. So we went and bought groceries at the commissary and still ended up, Peyton ate lunch out of the house two days already, and it's only Thursday.

[00:01:51] Carol: And we had dinner out last night because I just did not feel like cooking. So I feel like it's really hard to make adjustments to your normal schedule to accommodate cooking a big meal and cooking healthy. So we'll get there, but we did not do a good job this week. And ultimately the things that we didn't cook though can go in the freezer, so that's a good thing.

[00:02:12] Carol: I don't feel like I've wasted food, but

[00:02:14] Tim: That's good.

[00:02:15] Carol: goals healthier and save money,

[00:02:18] Tim: I'll say we're the opposite. We almost never eat out, and of course it's a little different. My wife, she doesn't have a, you know, a nine to five job. She used to stay at home mom, so, I mean, that's what she does, right? She like does the laundry and.

[00:02:33] Tim: Cooks meals and things like that. So that's a little easier cuz both you and your husband are, are working. But, you know, even then that's still a challenge to, you know, to always, the biggest challenge is like, what do you want for dinner, ? Like, that's an argument that you just have the rest of your life until you both die

[00:02:50] Tim: So, but one thing we fast, like, so we, couple things, couple things that we do. number one, just making sure you have ingredients, right? Because it's like, if you don't think about really what you want to make, have a have a set of recipes that you wanna do and then have, make sure you have the stuff to do it and then.

[00:03:08] Tim: we have a chalkboard that we painted on the wall that you can buy chalkboard paint, right? So we, there's a section of our wall in the kitchen and anytime anything runs out, we write on the board in chalk.

[00:03:18] Carol: Oh,

[00:03:18] Tim: and that's our, that is our shopping list, right? So the main things that everybody wants, like if somebody wants some more cookies or whatever, you write it on the, on the chalkboard.

[00:03:27] Tim: And then before you go shopping, you take your phone, click,

[00:03:30] Carol: snap a picture.

[00:03:31] Tim: snap a picture. And that way you don't forget. So therefore you always have the ingredients that you need. But then the second thing is like, you know, doing a lot to, you know, Michelle having to run the kids back and forth to school and to work.

[00:03:43] Carol: Um, Lilly's started a job at Subway. Oh, that's cool. That was my first job.

[00:03:47] Tim: yeah, she's a sandwich

[00:03:49] Carol: Yeah.

[00:03:49] Tim: Yeah. So yeah, she's 17. Her first job, very proud of her. She went out and, and did it. But yeah, so she's running around a lot. So it's gotten harder to like plan the meals. It's just doing batch prep and there's a whole ton of videos if you do batch recipes where you can do.

[00:04:05] Tim: like it's like 10 to 15 ingredients, but you can combine them in a different way so that you can make multiple different meals and then put them in containers. And then you have, you know, meals for seven days a week that are, that are somewhat unique. They're, you know, they're using the same stuff on over again.

[00:04:21] Tim: But honestly, that's Mexican food. Mexican food is like seven ingredients,

[00:04:25] Carol: And it's delicious.

[00:04:26] Tim: yeah, that it is delicious, but it's just processed different ways. Right. So

[00:04:30] Adam: ways you can combine chicken and beans and.

[00:04:32] Tim: Yeah, exactly. And cheese and, and salsa and so, but yeah. Yeah. So I, I think those are the things that kind of help us kind of keep to that. And we, like I said, I can't remember the last time I've eaten out.

[00:04:44] Tim: I think three months ago they opened the new Captain D's around here and I'm like, you know what? I want fish and chips. And so I went there and that's probably the only time in the last year that I ate out

[00:04:55] Carol: Oh wow. Nope. We eat out a lot more than that. We eat out so much. We get rewards from Uber Eats, so we eat in, I guess I should say we eat in, but lots of food is delivered to the house. But we have, we're trying to do better, trying to be healthier. I'm working out all the time and seas working out, so we are attempting to do better, but we definitely are going the route of trying to meal prep.

[00:05:17] Carol: So on Sunday afternoon I'll like chop up onion, chop up bell pepper, chop up some of those key things that we need to make everything for the week. That way it's less likely for me to go, oh, I don't wanna stand here and do this. Like the onions are already diced, the peppers already dice. All I need to do is put it in a pan, you know, fry up some meat or something and figure out what we're gonna have.

[00:05:37] Carol: So will get there slowly.

[00:05:39] Tim: sure. Well, well, good luck to you,

[00:05:42] Carol: thank you. that's it for me. We'll buy you.

[00:05:45] Adam's Failure

[00:05:45] Adam: I'm gonna go with a failure this week. if you follow me on Mastodon, or I guess probably Twitter, you probably already know this if you have been paying attention to my stuff, which I wouldn't blame anybody for not, but, um,

[00:05:56] Tim: yeah, I, I don't know.

[00:05:58] Adam: I, I, I posted a, a social media storm of tweets, because my son had his Microsoft account stolen from him via social engineering.

[00:06:07] Adam: So Sunday, you know, I was kind of taking an easy day, lounged around the house in the morning, took a shower probably like 10 30, 11 o'clock. While I'm in the shower, my wife comes in and says, so my son,I don't wanna say his name, whatever. He, he, uh,

[00:06:21] Tim: Your son when he is in trouble.

[00:06:22] Adam: he, yeah, well, whatever, I mean, she said his name right?

[00:06:26] Adam: but he, basically he gave his email address, to somebody on Minecraft and now he can't get into his account.

[00:06:34] Tim: Mm.

[00:06:35] Adam: oh. So long story short, very, very long story short, this person basically, you know, they were playing around in Minecraft. this person who didn't know bet him a rank.

[00:06:44] Adam: So a rank, you can like, basically pay to get some extra features and stuff, you know, it's like, whatever pay to, to get better stats and things, and bet him a rank on, on a pvp, dual, right? So they fight each other, loser buys the winner or rank, and then of course this guy took a dive, you know, intentionally lost.

[00:07:02] Adam: And I was like, okay, well I lost fair's fair. So what's your email address? I'll, I'll, I'll buy you a rank. Which this is something that my son has done for other people, right? People he knows, in real life. His friends, he's like gifted them a rank for their birthday or something. and so he, it didn't seem all that, extraordinary to him, because, you know, he, you do have to have the email to gift somebody a rank, but then the guy's like, okay, well I sent you a code.

[00:07:25] Adam: I need that code from you to, to

[00:07:28] Carol: Oh no.

[00:07:29] Adam: And, and you know, we've been, teaching him for years and telling him like, never give any information to anybody on the internet. and you know, it was just, I think that it was too enticing to get this free rank cuz they're not cheap. you know, it's a little bit of money.

[00:07:41] Adam: and, and so his guard was down and he gave the dude the code and so, you know, okay, that's one thing the account got stolen. The, the guy took over his account, changed the email address, whatever. What made it especially frustrating is that Microsoft has made it, I wanna say intentionally difficult to, impossible to get it back.

[00:08:01] Tim: Like a red bubble account.

[00:08:02] Adam: we'll get, we'll come to that, actually, don't let me forget about that. there is a process for recovering an account. like if you lose the password and, and you know, there's no way to, to log in or whatever and you don't have a, a recovery email address or whatever, it's entirely automated and there is no way for there to be a human in the loop.

[00:08:20] Adam: Like I got. In touch with a couple of different people. I talked to their, their Twitter support people, and they all basically, they all told me like, there's no way for us to do any, they're like, no matter how nice of a person, no matter what department you get into, there's, they just can't

[00:08:37] Tim: did you actually talk to humans though?

[00:08:39] Adam: Yes.

[00:08:39] Adam: Not on the phone. Not on the phone, but like through Twitter support and stuff. so yeah. Yeah. I, I tried for like a full day to recover it through online things. Right. You know, you search around how do I recover this or that, and there's a recovery form and you fill it out and you have to fill in, you know, very specific things like, you know, have you ever, have you made purchases using this account?

[00:08:59] Adam: You know, like from the Microsoft store? Okay, well, yeah, he bought Minecraft, so we have that and he's bought other things, so, and then it's because you say yes to that, they're like, okay, well what's the last four of the credit card number and the expiration. other things like, have you ever used Skype or do you have an Outlook email address, or, you know, whatever other thing.

[00:09:16] Adam: And then there's like, you know, what's the full name on your account? What's your birthday? These things that are attached to your account. And if you get the right combination of details in this recovery process, it will give you the account back. Well, I'm guessing that the attacker changed details in his personal details, his profile information rate.

[00:09:36] Adam: If you go in and change the name and you change the birthday and you change all these things, then basically I have zero chance of hitting the right combination of details in the recovery form to automated get it back. Now here is where spat in my eye, we use what's called Microsoft Family Safety, which is just Microsoft's way of like having parent and child accounts and being able to oversee and control them, right?

[00:10:00] Adam: So my kids have Windows computers and they are signed into their computers using their Microsoft account, which lets us. Monitor and control their screen time. So I can say they can like send a request, can I have more screen time? And you can say, yes, you can have one more hour because you mowed the lawn or whatever.

[00:10:14] Adam: Right? and so because of that relationship, I have an app where I can go in and see some details about their account. I can give him extra screen time or whatever. And in that app I can see the current email address attached to his account and it's not his email address. And

[00:10:28] Tim: So they changed,

[00:10:29] Adam: they changed the email address and, and you know who el who knows what else.

[00:10:32] Adam: And it's just like, I can see the email address attached to the account. I am listed as his parent, but I can't go in and change the email address on his account. I can't force a password reset. They're just, it's like, here, here's the details of the person who stole your account, but you can't do anything about it.

[00:10:51] Carol: Yeah, your hands are.

[00:10:53] Adam: infuriating. it, it, to me it's, it stinks of this, trend in American society of. Just removing people from everything because people cost money, right? So anything that you can make, they're, they're outsourcing customer service to the consumer, right? They, they built a recovery app and they made it available to me, and now I am customer service for trying to recover my own account.

[00:11:19] Adam: And if I can't help myself, then too bad.

[00:11:21] Tim: Yep.

[00:11:22] Adam: And oh my God, it was so infuriating and to the point where, you know, I, I posted on Mastodon, I posted on Twitter, somebody else saw my tweets on my tweets on Mastodon, my tweets on Mastodon. And, and tagged Scott Hanselman, who works at Microsoft and, and said, maybe you could help.

[00:11:39] Adam: And he was, he was very gracious. He offered, and you know, he said, I, I'll try. I don't, you know, I'm gonna have to, you know, see what I can do. I'm, I'm not super hopeful, but I'll Yeah, sure, I'll try. And I sent him some details and I haven't heard anything back, but, you know, I don't blame him. He's got, he's a busy guy.

[00:11:52] Adam: He's got a lot going on and, and like I said, there's basically zero chance that anything is gonna ha come from it. anyway. So the kid learned, a hard lesson the hard way

[00:12:02] Tim: so basically it has to start a new Minecraft account and from zero.

[00:12:06] Adam: zero. Yep. And, and so there were friends that he had from like other time zones on, on there, like from around the world that he doesn't, he probably doesn't really remember their

[00:12:16] Carol: Like their username. Yeah,

[00:12:17] Adam: so cuz he just had 'em on his friends list, he didn't have, you know, can you tell me the phone numbers of like your three best friends?

[00:12:24] Adam: Probably not because they're in

[00:12:24] Tim: I can't tell you my phone number.

[00:12:27] Adam: So like, oh, I feel so bad for him, but, you know, I'm, at the same time, I'm also really glad that this happened to his Minecraft account when he's in a pre-teen, not his bank account, when he's

[00:12:38] Carol: Right?

[00:12:39] Tim: yeah, for sure.

[00:12:40] Carol: Lessons learned the hard way.

[00:12:42] Adam: yeah.

[00:12:43] Tim: I mean, Google do the same thing to me with, with a work account, a Google

[00:12:48] Adam: Mm.

[00:12:49] Tim: business account that I had where I was trying to add a new phone number to Google Voice and I got an error and it said, please try again. I did that like multiple times, and then I got, I got blocked out and I had no recourse.

[00:13:00] Tim: I just shut the account down,

[00:13:01] Adam: Yeah,

[00:13:02] Carol: You had to just cancel the account.

[00:13:03] Tim: Yep,

[00:13:04] Carol: Oh, that's so frustrating.

[00:13:06] Tim: everyone all your phone numbers. I, I, I can't get them back, which is we, we'll do it another way.

[00:13:10] Carol: That's awful. I'm so sorry.

[00:13:13] Tim: that was terrible for the whole, for the whole company.

[00:13:15] Adam: Oh, man. Wow.

[00:13:17] Tim: Yep.

[00:13:18] Adam: All right. Well, that's me. Ben couldn't be with us tonight. He had the family emergency going on. So, Tim, that leaves you. What do you got going on, man?

[00:13:25] Adam:

[00:13:25] Tim's Triumph

[00:13:25] Adam: Welcome back, by the way,

[00:13:27] Tim: thank you. Thank you. I mean, I was here last week for a little bit and then I was just fading out the painkillers and the pain was, was getting dimmi, but I'm, I'm, I'm, yeah, no, I'm, I'm, it's been

[00:13:37] Adam: Week.

[00:13:38] Tim: weeks since two weeks since my surgery, so I'm, I'm a hundred percent better. So, and I'm gonna kind of piggyback off of what I talked about last time.

[00:13:46] Tim: I, last time I talked about, you know, I did a kind of prototype to sales call where we had this use case. I didn't really know if I was hitting it. And I, built, built a proof of con concept for the customer and during the sales call I showed it to 'em and they're like, oh my God, this is exactly, and they so update.

[00:14:03] Tim: They signed a contract, so like, like we, so I showed it to me on Wednesday. We did the podcast on Thursday, Friday. They accepted our

[00:14:12] Carol: Yay. That's great news.

[00:14:14] Tim: That's fantastic. I mean, that's a great, I mean,

[00:14:16] Carol: That's a quick turnaround.

[00:14:18] Tim: Yeah. When you get a deal. Yeah. It's a very quick turnaround. They were ready to buy and we were up against our biggest competitor who normally beats us, but I, and I think doing this proof of concept kind of thing, even though I don't think this, this won't be the end all, be all thing that we build for them, but just to allow them to see how our tools can be used, kind of help them make the, the business decision to buy it.

[00:14:40] Tim: So.

[00:14:40] Adam: you're gonna go the extra mile for

[00:14:41] Tim: Exactly. And so my triumph for this week is that, so I'm, I'm like, After I realized, you know what, I really, because I've been kind of losing a little bit of joy lately. It's like I, I don't know what my role as an somewhat executive is, but because I don't feel like I should be like, hands on keyboard a hundred percent of the time, I'm dealing with legal, I'm dealing with marketing and sales.

[00:15:05] Tim: I'm dealing with like different pieces in making sure everyone's, you know, working together. But I think that's one area where I really get joy is like building a prototype to make a sale. And so, I'm, I'm taking that to the next level. There's, several partners that we've partnered with over the last year and they have like open APIs that we can deal with.

[00:15:25] Tim: And so we've gotten some requests from customers. And so I've like, you know what? I really, really enjoyed doing that proof of concept. Let me go grab the API from this company, and then build our tools into it using those APIs. And so that's what I've been doing the past few days is just building these kind of prototypes, quick and dirty.

[00:15:46] Tim: These aren't by no means they're not gonna be production ready, but they can demonstrate and help the customer visualize, here's, if you use our product, here's how it's gonna work in your ecosystem. You're, you're gone with this, policy administration system, this claim administration system, right?

[00:16:02] Tim: Here's how we take our stuff and put it into what you're gonna be doing. And that visualization, I mean, that is so money, it just, they when once they see that, they're like, okay, I see that it works when you see, okay, yes, we're using the same tools you're using and here's our tools. Here's how they go to blend together.

[00:16:22] Tim: And they, once they realize they can, they can actually do it. They, there's a whole lot more confidence that, you, you can pull off what they're trying to accomplish. So that's what I've been doing and just really enjoying, I've been reading a lot of api. This one is a lot more, the last one was a lot more.

[00:16:37] Tim: I just used my own tools and built my own website to kind of do their use case. This one is someone else's API that I'm taking and I'm taking that API and I'm using our tools, merging 'em together. And so it's a lot more involved cuz I don't really know their api, but it's actually, you know, it's actually fun to kind of learn it.

[00:16:57] Tim: See, okay, I see how you're doing this, that's pretty cool. let me merge our stuff together so that we can, make a working product. So,

[00:17:05] Carol: I wish you were on last week when we talked about learning, cuz going through documentation is fun for some people, not fun for others, right? You would've had a, you would've had a good time talking on that episode,

[00:17:16] Tim: nah, I wouldn't have been in much a lot of pain, but no, actually I find it really hard. It's like a whole wall of text, just really. Overloads my brain. So I, I, but fortunately they have really good kind of step-by-step examples of which I've been working through, this company that, I mean, they, they've done a nice job of, like, they have accreditation where, and that's their whole business model.

[00:17:35] Tim: They, they don't sell a pro an end product. They sell an API that builds an insurance product.

[00:17:41] Carol: That's cool.

[00:17:42] Tim: And, so basically it's, it, that's why they've put so much resources into building tools to help you say, all right, I want to, you know, create a life insurance product, so here's how you do it. And they have a whole lot of tutorials how to do that.

[00:17:56] Tim: And so that's, the, just the tools that makes it a lot easier to learn rather than just looking at some swagger doc, which a lot of times I can figure out from a swagger doc, but once you start getting into like more than 10, 15 endpoints, you're like, oh, okay. I don't really know which one I would call first.

[00:18:12] Carol: Right. How do they actually differ?

[00:18:14] Tim: How do they inter, how do they interact with each other, you know, and, and their, their swagger API has a, swagger doc has like probably 250 different, different requests with, you know, with all different, you know, get post, delete patch, I mean, all different actions on it. So it get, it gets a bit in involved.

[00:18:35] Tim: So, but yeah, but fortunately I have really good documentation, so I've been really enjoying that.

[00:18:41] Carol: Well, if, if you, if you get the urge to go read some more documentation, feel free to hit on, head on over to like the FEMA documentation and try to get all of their endpoints working because they work and then they crash, and then they work, and then they crash. And that's like the problem with working with like an open source project like that.

[00:18:59] Carol: There's no, there's no plan for how they move forward with things. So like it works and then all of a sudden there's new data, it doesn't work anymore. I hate it. I hate it.

[00:19:08] Tim: Yeah. This one, I mean, this one's pretty interesting, so I don't get too far in the details on it, but basically they have a, a web front end you can do, but ultimately the whole thing is basically a bunch of folders like spec. You have to have very specific folder structure with specific js o files and specific JavaScript files, and you upload that to their Amazon sandbox and it will compile it.

[00:19:33] Tim: So it takes their stuff and compiles it and builds basically an entire, policy or claims administration system for insurance.

[00:19:40] Carol: Oh, that's nifty. I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around it, but I would love to see it.

[00:19:44] Tim: yeah. Well, I'll, I'll send you the link off offline , but I don't, but yeah, so it's, it's pretty interesting how they do it cuz they have like a sort of a base thing.

[00:19:53] Tim: So everything that you're uploading is either setting variable, you can create, different data points or you can create, you can overload, functions on it.

[00:20:03] Tim: So either it uses the normal function or you can like upload the JavaScript to overload the function to get a custom thing. So yeah. But yeah, that's what I'm working on.

[00:20:12] Tim: We'll see a couple weeks from now I might be hating it and going, this is stupid. I can't figure it out. But, but that's my goal, to come up with a demo for that, so that we can, win, win another big customer. So,

[00:20:24] Carol: I am just happy one of us won this week,

[00:20:26] Tim: yeah.

[00:20:27] Adam: All right. Sounds like we're ready to move on to our listener questions. So Tim, for the, spectacular episode 100, you were MCing the whole thing. You asked all the questions. I was thinking instead of that, why don't we like take turns, picking out our, our favorite questions and, and we'll just go from there.

[00:20:42] Adam: So, how about ladies first? Carol, do you wanna pick one?

[00:20:45] Which Other Host Would You Be?

[00:20:45] Carol: Yeah, sure. I'm gonna go with be someone else. If somehow you could be one of the other hosts or hostesses other than yourself for one. Who would he wanna be and why?

[00:20:59] Adam: I'm gonna pick Ben and I'm gonna, just so I can lift heavy things.

[00:21:03] Carol: He does got big, pretty muscles

[00:21:06] Tim: I am gonna pick Ben just because he's a much better human being than I am. He's, he is so kindhearted and I am not, I'm he, he looks, he looks for the positive in things and I'm just such a cynic.

[00:21:21] Carol: and he doesn't just look for it, he finds it right. Like he can find the silver lining of everything. And that's not, like a quality most people possess.

[00:21:30] Tim: Yeah. I mean, I, I wouldn't want his constant anxiety, but you know what? I don't really know how much more his anxiety is than mine, honestly.

[00:21:38] Carol: yeah.

[00:21:39] Adam: I, I, I like

[00:21:40] Adam: replying to my text messages and emails.

[00:21:44] Tim: Yeah, he, he just, he just enunciates his anxiety. I just hide it. I just bury it deep, deep down.

[00:21:50] Adam: it up.

[00:21:51] Tim: Bottle it up. Yeah.

[00:21:53] Carol: I mean, I don't, yeah, I don't know who I would pick. Like all three of you are pretty amazing. yeah, I, I don't have an answer. I'm sorry. I thought I would have one and now it's really hard when I actually think about it on a deeper level, right? Like, I wanna be you because you're super adventurous, Adam, and you seem to be scared by nothing and you're like, take on any challenge and we'll just go at it full force and be what happens.

[00:22:19] Carol: Right? And you know, Tim has always been super compassionate to me, and he's always been a good leader and, you know, cares about his family tremendously. And Ben just has the biggest heart of anyone. So I, I don't know.

[00:22:33] Tim: So you want a recipe of all three of

[00:22:35] Carol: Yeah. Can I mix you all together in like a stew? And that's what I get. Thank

[00:22:40] Adam: was gonna say like, you know, I could, I'm sure that there are things about each of you guys that I would wanna do. Like for you, Carol, you seem to be so dedicated to. exercise. Like you get up really early, you exercise almost every day or every day. I wish I had that motivation and, and follow through.

[00:22:56] Adam: I'm jealous of that from you.

[00:22:59] Carol: I, uh, today got back to where this is not gonna be a big whim for anybody else listening who is actually good at lifting like Ben. But, I can now do, chest presses with 20 pound dumbbells on each hand, which is big for me cuz I was only at like five and seven when I started because my muscles had like, just gotten so bad over the past year.

[00:23:20] Carol: But yeah, I'm up to twenties and I'm proud of that.

[00:23:23] Adam: You look like you weigh like 20 pounds.

[00:23:25] Carol: Oh no, I got thick when I got married.

[00:23:30] Tim: It happens. It

[00:23:31] Carol: I started eating a lot.

[00:23:33] Adam: the marriage. 15.

[00:23:34] Carol: Yeah.

[00:23:35] Tim: Yep,

[00:23:36] Adam: All right. That was a good question.

[00:23:38] Carol: All right. What about you, Tim? You wanna take the next.

[00:23:41] Tim:

[00:23:41] How Would You Get Rid of a Dead Body?

[00:23:41] Tim: so here's one, number 18, dead body. How would you get rid of a dead body?

[00:23:45] Adam: Well, you picked it. You gotta answer first.

[00:23:48] Tim: So, I mean, I got a couple ways. So number, number one, those pigs will eat bones and all. So if you own a, you own a pig farm, you just throw the body at a pig farm, you know, with a bunch of really, really hungry pigs, you have to like plant it, right? You don't just like randomly kill someone, you gotta make sure the pigs are like, really, really super hungry.

[00:24:08] Tim: And then you throw the body in the trough and they eat it all. , and then you muck out the stable or wherever they're staying and yeah, you're good. and then the other one was, so a while back, I think I talked about this, the podcast, you want to do our septic tank? yeah. So when, when they were emptying the septic tank, I'm like, you know, this is, I was talking to the guys, they're like digging out, like I'm, I'm trying to like commit, you know, hanging out with the guys.

[00:24:32] Tim: They're, they're, they're shoveling my poop. The least thing I can do is like, hang out with them and like talk to them and see how they're going. And so they're like working, like guys jumping in there and cleaning stuff out. It's nasty. And I'm like, you know what? If you really wanted to hide a body, this would be a great place to do it.

[00:24:47] Tim: And they're like, it's happened before

[00:24:51] Carol: Oh, girls.

[00:24:54] Tim: So yeah, I think throw it, if you have a septic tank at your house, throw it in there. Put a bunch of like, you can get like this, these biological. drain cleaners that are, that, that just eat anything that's in there and pretty much everything there will, will melt down. There might be some few bones.

[00:25:08] Tim: I think the pigs are probably a better option, but those are my two.

[00:25:12] Carol: Yeah. I was gonna say pigs as well. I grew up on the farm, right? So our pigs would eat anything and. Shortly after they're big enough, you take 'em to slaughter. So it's not like you would have evidence for very long because now those pigs are slaughtered and they're gone. Right? So

[00:25:27] Adam: Does that make it cannibalism? If you eat the pig meat? If you eat the pork, and that's made of human meat cuz they ate humans.

[00:25:35] Carol: let's say yes.

[00:25:36] Tim: Only only if you believe that because pigs, well, only if you believe that animals that only eat vegetables and you eat the animals makes you a vegetarian.

[00:25:45] Adam: Well, in that case,

[00:25:46] Carol: Oh, that hurts my brain, And then I say, the other thing is my husband's in the army, right? So I'd just be like, honey, I've done a bad thing. Come help me Let him deal with where the bodies lie.

[00:26:02] Tim: There you go. Professional help.

[00:26:03] Carol: Yeah.

[00:26:04] Adam: I don't know. I'm too much of a goody two shoes. I don't really have a, a fun answer for this. The only thing I can think of that we haven't already talked about is, I really enjoyed the TV show Dexter.

[00:26:12] Carol: Oh yeah.

[00:26:13] Adam: if you remember from that, he, he would get rid of bodies by going out on his boat into the ocean and, and like, I guess he had 'em chopped up in garbage bags and then like those were weighted down, so they would just go down to the bottom of the ocean.

[00:26:24] Carol: Oops. Sharks eat. Ya done.

[00:26:27] Adam: Yeah.

[00:26:28] Tim: I mean, apparently human flesh tastes like pork. I mean, sailors, sailors that would get like, you know, they'd get the doldrums and they, they didn't get any food. They would start to eat each other, cannibalize each other. So they called it long pork. So they're called human, so, yeah. Yeah. Long pig. So, um,I mean, you could do the, fried green tomatoes thing.

[00:26:50] Tim: It just butcher it and serve it at a re.

[00:26:53] Adam: This episode got real weird

[00:26:57] Tim: Sorry, this is Monte's fault. This is his question.

[00:27:00] Adam: Oh gosh. I think we should move on.

[00:27:02] Carol: Oh on.

[00:27:03] Adam: that makes it my turn.

[00:27:04] Should Danny DeVito be the Next Wolverine?

[00:27:04] Adam: I'm gonna go with should Danny DeVito be the next Wolverine and it, and the, this came with a, there's a, a change.org petition, which is a little shy of its goal of trying to get to 75,000, signatures, but, that they want have the, the, the change.org petition is have Danny DeVito played the rebooted wolverine in the M C U.

[00:27:22] Adam: Now look, do I think he would be an amazing Wolverine? No. Would I go see this movie in the theater probably three times? Absolutely.

[00:27:32] Adam: I mean, Wolverine is supposed to be short. That's sort of in the comics. That's sort of the thing and, and Hugh Jackman is not short. Did you,

[00:27:39] Carol: Buddy sexy.

[00:27:42] Tim: true,

[00:27:42] Adam: what about,

[00:27:43] Adam: like, like Thor, Ragnarok, right? That was the one that was like, had Jeff Goldblum and stuff, right?

[00:27:48] Tim: Yeah.

[00:27:48] Adam: I, I found that to be probably my favorite move movie from the, the first 10,000 M C U movies. you know, it's, it's doesn't take itself overly seriously. It's fun, it's just different.

[00:28:01] Adam: And I feel like Danny DeVito in a Wolverine movie could, could contribute to a cast and a, and a story like that in, in X-Men, you know, universe.

[00:28:14] Carol: Was he the penguin and a Batman?

[00:28:16] Tim: was mm-hmm. I mean, although the comic books show Wolverine is like really, really buff. I mean, if you think about as powers, it's the only real power is regeneration. And he can like, like extend claws. So that's the two things. Doesn't mean he has to be fit. Yeah, he has. Yeah. Initially he, it was just bone and then later someone replaced all his bone with Adam Manum.

[00:28:41] Tim: That's why he later got old cuz he was dying from Adam Manum poisoning. So, but it's like Odyssey.

[00:28:48] Tim: He could be a fat guy.

[00:28:49] Adam: wasn't it? I, I feel like there was some aspect in one of the stories, I don't remember if this was a comic or in a movie or whatever, but I feel like somewhere it kind of became canon that whatever it is that like heals him also kind of pushes him toward an ideal body. So he kind of becomes muscular

[00:29:06] Adam: because of that

[00:29:08] Tim: That, that's probably true. But maybe if you wreck con you could say, you could say, you know what, the old, he has two things, regeneration and he can create claws. And so he could like be a big fat guy who once was buff, but he is short and buff and now he's gotten older and he, he's let himself go because of bad living.

[00:29:27] Tim: It'd be, it'd be hilarious. That's for.

[00:29:30] Adam: Absolutely. Carol's just

[00:29:32] Carol: X-Men. Yay.

[00:29:34] Adam: Oh,

[00:29:35] Carol: I I'm just surprised, like you weren't impressed that I knew that he was a penguin in a Bath Man movie.

[00:29:41] Adam: I was impressed.

[00:29:42] Carol: Where's my kudos

[00:29:43] Carol: at?

[00:29:43] Tim: sorry. Yes, I was, yeah, you got that reference and that was not a early, that was like not a recent reference.

[00:29:49] Carol: No, that was old. That was old.

[00:29:51] Tim: It's go, it's going back ways there.

[00:29:52] Adam: Val Kilmer, era

[00:29:54] Carol: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Yep.

[00:29:57] Adam: He was, I guess he was well, was, yeah, that was Val Kilmer was Batman. Right.

[00:30:01] Carol: yeah. I dunno.

[00:30:02] Tim: I think so. That's what my gut's with, but I'm not sure.

[00:30:07] Adam: Anyway,

[00:30:07] Carol: check us, please.

[00:30:09] Adam: your source for misinformation.

[00:30:12] Carol: All right.

[00:30:12] Which Snow White Dwarf Would You Be?

[00:30:12] Carol: I'll go to the next one. So Snow White, if you could be any of the seven dwarfs, which would you be and your options are? Happy duck, grumpy, dopey, bashful, sleepy and sneezy. I'll go first. You guys. I'm gonna go with sneezy cuz I'm literally allergic to everything in this world. So sneezy it is.

[00:30:33] Adam: Yeah. The question is written is like, which one best describes you?

[00:30:37] Carol: Oh, maybe I should have clicked on it.

[00:30:40] Adam: the, I think we should also answer which one would you want to be?

[00:30:44] Carol: yeah. So the one that describes me is sneezy because I'm allergic to everything. There you go.

[00:30:49] Adam: But which one would you be if you could choose?

[00:30:51] Carol: Happy.

[00:30:53] Tim: I'd be dopey cuz he's the only one who gets kisses from Snow. White

[00:30:59] Carol: I did not know that

[00:31:01] Tim: yeah. You, I think in the film, like she kisses him. I, she never does anything to the other guys.

[00:31:05] Adam: Hmm.

[00:31:06] Tim: Although, I mean if there were other like, like the extended universe of them, you know, if I could be maybe drunkie that, that'd be great.

[00:31:14] Carol: winner winner chicken dinner.

[00:31:15] Adam: I guess I would say either grumpy or sleepy. Probably best describes me lately. I've been, I mean, I, I, I drink way too much caffeine. and that's how I get through the day. And then I wake up the next morning with a terrible headache from not having had caffeine for the last eight hours. And, and I'm not in a good mood.

[00:31:34] Adam: And then, you know, sometimes if I don't keep up with it, I get a really bad headache from withdrawal in the day. So,

[00:31:40] Carol: It's a vicious cycle.

[00:31:41] Adam: yeah.

[00:31:42] Carol: Yeah, cutting out caffeine is not easy.

[00:31:45] Adam: But yeah, I think, I would also like to be, Happy

[00:31:49] Carol: Yeah.

[00:31:49] Adam: Not that I'm not happy, but you know what I mean? Like if I

[00:31:51] Carol: it sounds so sad.

[00:31:54] Adam: All right. All right. Tim, I think it's your turn.

[00:31:56] Carol: on.

[00:31:56] Revive The Working Code Book Club

[00:31:56] Tim: so here's one. This not so frivolous would you guys be reviving the working code pod book club?

[00:32:06] Tim: And to that, I will defer to our, I will defer to our leader Adam Tuttle.

[00:32:13] Adam: I would say it's definitely something I'm interested in. We just have to find the right book that the four of us want to read, and that we think would be interesting to the audience. And then we have to plan ahead, do it, you know, do the reading and set a date that the audience, so that we know when we're gonna to do the episode.

[00:32:29] Adam: Well, I think we also need to figure out a better format for doing the episode. Like I think it's a, it's an interesting idea for a podcast, but I think that we could do better than we did last time

[00:32:40] Carol: Yeah, I, I would, I would like to do, check-ins more often. So instead of waiting till the very end to just review the whole book, like go four weeks and do where we're at. But that's probably, four weeks is a very long time. So probably like every two weeks do a check-in and, yeah.

[00:32:56] Adam: There is a book, That I have permission from the author for us to, to review, which I guess we don't necessarily need it. But, it was kind enough to, to give us copies for the purpose of reviewing, that I'm interested in and, and we'll see if the three of you guys are interested in it as well.

[00:33:10] Adam: It's called the Coding Career Handbook and it's written by friend of the show, Swiss Sean Wang. so it's, I find that interesting and if I'm gonna read non-fiction that, you know, at least having it be tech, it would be make it more palatable for me.

[00:33:24] Carol: I am more likely to finish it. ? Yeah.

[00:33:27] Tim: Yeah,

[00:33:28] Adam: we'd like to, but we just gotta find the right, confluence of circumstances.

[00:33:32] Tim: Our listeners have any sort of books they wanna recommend. I

[00:33:36] Adam: Absolutely. So I was gonna bring this up later and say like, you know, if you guys have questions that you want us to answer in a format like this, the best place to leave those would be to go to workingcode.dev/ama and that'll bring you to a GitHub repository where you can just leave an issue as a question.

[00:33:52] Adam: This is what we did for The Spectacular. So that's where all of the, questions that we're pulling from our, for right now. and we'll just continue to use this, repository for the same purpose. but the reason I say that is because, if you wanna suggest a book for the book club, you can also come here and, and, leave it as an issue.

[00:34:08] Adam: So that would be fine.

[00:34:09] Good/Bad Programmer Shows or Movies?

[00:34:09] Adam: All right. Is it my turn then? what do you guys think are the best programmer movies? Programming, like coding movies, because, you know, so often we see tech stuff in movies and on tv, and it's just a hundred percent cringe.

[00:34:24] Carol: That's wrong.

[00:34:25] Adam: yeah. do you think that there are any that like do a really good job?

[00:34:29] Tim: I would say it's not a movie, it's a TV series and it's, Hal and Catch Fire,

[00:34:34] Adam: Mm-hmm.

[00:34:36] Carol: Is that the one with the mask guy?

[00:34:39] Adam: the

[00:34:39] Tim: no.

[00:34:40] Carol: Okay, nevermind.

[00:34:41] Tim: I I think you're thinking of, Mr.

[00:34:42] Tim: Robot. Yeah. Mr. So Hal and Catch Fire is, it's kind of set in the early days, it's like pre-internet and then post-internet. Well, yeah, like early seventies, eighties, so like when the internet was really starting to get going and it kind of follows the careers of the, of these people.

[00:35:00] Tim: And I mean the coding, they don't show a whole lot of coding, but I mean, they basically follow, the early days of, of BBSs and the early days of like search engines, you know, and just sort of the Silicon Valley kind of machinations going behind this, it. even though they weren't, it wasn't obviously a documentary and they weren't, they couldn't use the properties that we, you know, I grew up with.

[00:35:25] Tim: But, it really got the feel of, yeah, that's kind of what it felt like. This extreme optimism that everyone had in their early internet days, and then how it quickly just became all about the money. So that, like one of the characters, he, he, he basically creates a virus so they can create virus software.

[00:35:42] Tim: So he creates the problem to create the solution that he can create, you know, make business out of. And I don't know if that's how actually it worked, but, you know.

[00:35:49] Carol: I wouldn't doubt it.

[00:35:50] Tim: Yeah. I wouldn't doubt it, but I mean, the acting is extremely good. It's like, I think it's three seasons, four seasons. and it just really captures that, it captures that, that, that early internet startup kind of thing.

[00:36:01] Adam: Yeah. I felt like the pacing was a little slow. I don't think I saw the last season. it's done right? They're not making anymore.

[00:36:07] Tim: Yeah. They're done.

[00:36:07] Adam: Yeah. So I don't think I've seen the final season. but yeah, it was, I, I really enjoyed it when I was able to get through it. Like I felt like it was worth watching and I mean, there's some really talented people and I think that, Mackenzie Davis who, went on to be in the Martian and in a bunch of other stuff, was in this, and I think it kind of launched her career.

[00:36:25] Adam: And,Carrie Biche, I think is how you pronounce it. She's also been in, for all mankind and, and a bunch of other stuff. And yeah, just a lot of really good actors in this show.

[00:36:35] Tim: It, it just sort of gave that early feelings of, of what it was like back in those days with the, all the possibilities. But then it's like, you know, the people, you know, sleeping at the office, it wasn't even office. It was kinda like a big house. The people, there's a lot of partying, but a lot of working and just those early days, it's just, yeah.

[00:36:53] Tim: Captures that, how I remember it through the lens of re nostalgia.

[00:36:58] Adam: Mm-hmm. it's been a long time since I've seen this movie, but I feel like I have a memory of it being reasonably faithful to reality. The movie Swordfish? it was about

[00:37:10] Tim: Password's always swordfish.

[00:37:12] Adam: It was, I think it was about, like, some bank, it was like bank heist type movie, but they needed, you know, uh, Uber elite, hacker to, to do some sort of, you know, vault cracking code stuff.

[00:37:24] Adam: But I remember it being, you know, just a good movie. Like it, it was incorporated tech, well, without being too cringey. It was a long time ago. Let's see. When did that movie. 2001, John Travolta and Hugh Jackman

[00:37:39] Carol: Yeah, I've not seen that

[00:37:41] Carol: 22 years ago, Wow. spin a minute.

[00:37:44] Adam: yeah. what else has been really good? I, you know, so there are movies that I think are a little on the cringey side, but for some reason if there can't be your cult classics, like, I like 'em Anyway. Like, one of my favorite movies is Hackers.

[00:37:57] Carol:

[00:37:57] Carol: not seen that.

[00:37:58] Adam: it's a, what is her name?

[00:38:00] Adam: She's a very famous actress. hackers,

[00:38:02] Carol: person to talk to about anything relating to movies or actors, actresses.

[00:38:08] Adam: Angelina Jolie and, Johnny Lee Miller, are the sort of the two leads. very good movie. I don't know. I mean, it's, it's campy, but, otherwise

[00:38:15] Carol: What does campy mean?

[00:38:16] Adam: that is a good question. I guess I only know it by relation. It's, it's like silly. but not in a, like a comedy way.

[00:38:25] Carol: Okay.

[00:38:27] Adam: I wish I knew better.

[00:38:28] Carol: I've never heard that before, so I didn't know what you meant when you say campy.

[00:38:32] Adam: okay. I, I just saw Johnny Lee Miller in something recently too. I forget what it was. It was a, oh, he, oh, he, he played, the Prime Minister in the last season of, the Crown. Yeah,

[00:38:46] Tim: Wow. I've not, I've not watched any of the Crown, so

[00:38:49] Carol: The way you said really made me think that you were very shocked by this and

[00:38:52] Carol: you like had

[00:38:53] Tim: just know what he looks like. I'm like, he doesn't look like any prime minister. I remember. Maybe Marker Thatcher.

[00:38:59] Adam: what you gotta do is, is imagine him all grown up, shave off the stubble, and then he gets, you know, a very clean cut, you know, English Prime Minister haircut. And put him in a

[00:39:09] Tim: wasn't he married to Angelina Jolie for a while?

[00:39:11] Adam: I don't know. Was he,

[00:39:13] Tim: I think so. He's, he was married to someone way outside his, his good looks range.

[00:39:19] Adam: I I, I don't remember that. I, I thought, wasn't Angelina or Joey with, the dude from Bad Santa for a while?

[00:39:25] Tim: Whatever his name is. This is a great

[00:39:28] Tim: Billy Bob. Billy Bob Thornton.

[00:39:30] Adam: so, okay, so, that's good stuff. What about really bad stuff? We might as well look at the other side of this coin. So there's a TV show that my wife and I have been watching for a very, very long time. And we probably mostly continue to watch it just because we have always watched, it's called N C I S, which is like a, it's a crime drama, Navy criminal investigate investigative service or whatever.

[00:39:51] Tim: Any, any of those ilk are bad. Enhance, enhance. Enhance

[00:39:56] Adam: it's funny cuz sometimes they do. reasonably good. And most of the time they just like, you know, we need a solution. Let's make it a tech solution. You know, like,

[00:40:05] Carol: Call the lab.

[00:40:06] Adam: yeah, you get a 32nd fingerprint match, or, you know, that sort of thing. Like, so, yeah. But I mean, sometimes it's awful. They just like tech word, tech word, tech word, whatever.

[00:40:20] Adam: I don't know. Do you guys have any favorites that you, that are bad?

[00:40:25] Carol: I have no input for this one. I'm so sorry.

[00:40:28] Adam: you're too busy at the gym to watch tv?

[00:40:30] Tim: Right, exactly.

[00:40:32] Carol: there's one that I loved, but I don't remember if it was accurate or not. Silicon Valley, that one was like a lot of fun to watch just for the humor of a startup and seeing people struggle and some of the tech jargon would be accurate. But I don't remember the details of everything. I'm like, oh look, his terminal actually is like executing something and it looks accurate.

[00:40:57] Tim: yeah, I, I think I, I agree with you. It crowd, oh, no, no, I'm sorry. Would you

[00:41:01] Tim: say, um, Silicon Valley, Silicon Valley, in a very satirical way, gave the feel of working in a very established kind of software company. I mean, they're, they're, Server guy. Remember him?

[00:41:16] Adam: Go foil.

[00:41:18] Tim: No, no, not, not Gil Voy. So he is like this gray-haired guy with a ponytail

[00:41:22] Adam: yeah, yeah.

[00:41:23] Carol: Oh yeah.

[00:41:24] Tim: I saw him and I'm like, oh my God, that is Dave Stewart

[00:41:28] Carol: Looks like someone we've worked with. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:41:30] Tim: That is exactly him. And he exa is exactly as deadpan and just exa. I mean, I can name, every time I watch that show, I'm like, that's so-and-so, that's so-and-so, that's this person. I know this person. I've worked with this person. I met this person at a

[00:41:47] Carol: it's very relatable.

[00:41:49] Tim: very relatable. Yeah. But as far as our coding goes, I, I don't, I don't remember actually seeing too much actual code on screen.

[00:41:55] Adam: Yeah, I, I, I've never worked in the valley or for a valley company, but, from what I hear, it's supposed to be, you know, close enough, right? If you, if you allow, artistic freedom for humor purposes, it's close enough to being accurately representing what it's like to work in the valley. So that's, you know, I'm repeating what I heard from somebody else, so I don't know how true that.

[00:42:17] Tim: and they had, they had the main writer from that show come to one of the ColdFusion summits a few years back that I was at.

[00:42:25] Carol: Oh really?

[00:42:26] Tim: Yeah. Yeah. It was like one of the early, I think it was the second ColdFusion summit. And,

[00:42:31] Adam: like as a keynote speaker type thing?

[00:42:32] Tim: as a keynote speaker. Yeah, a keynote speaker. And he got up there and, you know, he's not a programmer.

[00:42:37] Tim: He just, he just wrote a sh a funny show. And he got up there and he is like, so apparently I'm, you know, I'm supposed to ask, you know, about tabs or spaces, is that really a thing with you guys? And every like, everyone starts screaming and he goes, oh my god. You know, 35 years of riding and I'm stuck here with a bunch of these neck beards,

[00:42:59] Adam: yep. Sounds about right.

[00:43:01] Tim: Yeah.

[00:43:02] What One Thing Would You Become An Expert In?

[00:43:02] Tim: So there, oh yeah. I wanted to do this one. Number 25 expert. If you could become an expert on one thing overnight, what would you choose? And so for me, if I could be an expert, like immediately just download into my brain, it would be extreme survival would drop me off with nothing. Absolutely. You know, just me and my underwear in the middle of a forest and I can survive, you know, create a building, you know, get water, do all those sort of things.

[00:43:31] Tim: Build structures. And if I could that, that would be the one thing I wanna be able to do. Cause I watch , I watch these like primitive, shows where this guy like goes in the woods and like takes a rock and starts, makes an acts out of it, then chops down trees and then builds bricks and makes fires and creates an entire brick

[00:43:49] Adam: Oh, primitive technology.

[00:43:51] Tim: Yeah. Print technology. If I could do, if I could learn anything overnight, I wanna know how to do that. Just so when, when stuff happens, I'm not a prepper, but it's like, you know what? You never know. It'd be a good thing to have in your back pocket to be able to do.

[00:44:03] Carol: Yeah, if something does happen, you're safe, you're covered.

[00:44:05] Tim: Yeah. You could at least, you know, you can get some water, you can create some fire, you can build a structure and then, you know, create some sort of, you know, hunting tool to get food.

[00:44:15] Tim: So yeah, that, that, that's one thing I'd like to be able to download overnight.

[00:44:19] Adam: Hmm.

[00:44:19] Carol: think for me it would be, speaking German. I've been like on and off trying to learn it for years and I get through a few lessons and then life gets in the way and I stop and I realize it's just not a priority enough to actually learn another language. So I don't make myself finish it. Everything else is more important.

[00:44:38] Carol: So if I could just overnight be an expert, be like, yes, I can speak German. We're ready for Germany, honey.

[00:44:45] Tim: or just, hey, every language in the world, if you don't download.

[00:44:48] Carol: Yeah, I mean, if I can have 'em all fine, I'll take 'em all, but. If I only get one, I'll take German about

[00:44:54] Tim: I think you'll find when you're in, I think you'll find if you get moved to Germany, like pretty much all the Germans speak English.

[00:45:00] Carol: Sure. Yeah, that's what Steve said, cuz he's been there before. Is everyone around where we would be stationed at? Definitely speak English.

[00:45:08] Tim: Yeah. It's, it's nice to be an American speak the lingua franca of the world, so

[00:45:13] Carol: Yeah.

[00:45:14] Tim: that's a pretty good privilege.

[00:45:16] Adam: I think I would pick marketing, which I know sounds like a, a, a weird thing to pick, but, I feel like the way, it's gonna say a lot about my personality, the way I answered this question, but the way to, get rich is to be good at selling

[00:45:30] Adam: stuff. It's not to be the best at the thing you're selling, it's to be good at selling the thing that you're doing. and so if I could be an expert at marketing and then, you know, just continue to be reasonably good at a few things, then I, I could find a way to get myself set for life. That would be awesome.

[00:45:47] Tim: Yeah, I, I don't disagree with you there. I mean, that's, and the thing about marketing is like, I, I've dealt with tons of marketing people, employees, agencies, and it's like, it all sounds like BS to be honest. Like I don't, they all claim to have the magic number, but it's like, I don't really know anyone really does, and no one could ever give me metrics to prove that what they're doing is actually generating what it's generating and, and how they can, so yeah, I think if you're good at marketing, what I find funny is that there's tons of YouTubers who are, have had a really good like, They're really good YouTubers.

[00:46:26] Tim: You find out about their history. They were marketers to start with, right? Because they know how to market something and they could, right, so they can create the, the thumbnail or the title that, that gets the algorithm that gets to them. Yeah. So I, I definitely agree with that. If you were good at marketing, if you, and it can actually really be good at marketing consistently.

[00:46:48] Tim: Yeah.

[00:46:49] Adam: Yeah. Like, just,

[00:46:50] Tim: You, you're printing

[00:46:51] Adam: yeah, really, it's, it's funny that like, I, there I go saying it's funny again, but, I, I kind of have my eye sort of on the side on marketing stuff. Like, there's some people that I follow that are entrepreneurial stuff, business stuff, and a lot of what they teach is, you know, audience building and the, the right way in the wrong way.

[00:47:11] Adam: And, and why people fail. Because they just like, oh, I wanna make a thing that does this. So they make the thing that does this and then they try to sell it and it, and it doesn't do well because nobody cares. And the way that, you know, you build a successful business is you find an audience that needs to be served that isn't being served well.

[00:47:27] Adam: you know, they're, they're already saying, somebody please make this. I'll pay for it. And, and, you know, you do little things to help out that community and you slowly build a business for them. I, I obviously don't know enough about it, cuz if I knew it well, I would be doing that and I would be rich and,

[00:47:40] Tim: Right. And I mean, I, I mean, don't wanna, you said you wanna download your brain. I totally wish you could, but I mean, I think all three of us kind of have more engineer brains, right? It's like, build it, build it first, right? Marketers don't think that way. and so, and my daughter, she wants, she really wants to get into psychology.

[00:47:58] Tim: That's when she's going to dual enrollment in college and high school and psychology is kinda what she's going for. I don't really know if I, I don't know. I don't know a hundred percent if the psychology's really a way to make money, but it's like, if you wanna pivot that into marketing, cuz marketing is a huge amount of psychology, then yeah, that's the way to go if you really wanna to make, make some money, so.

[00:48:22] Carol: I mean big software companies, I mean, and even like the government stuff I was working on prior, we had psychologists on staff that handled our workflows. So they basically looked at how our application responded to humans and we drove what our system did based off of what they told us. So the psychologist said, you can't put this button here for this reason.

[00:48:42] Carol: You didn't put the button there because they knew how people would interact with the system.

[00:48:46] Tim: Yeah.

[00:48:48] Adam: That's very interesting. Kinda makes me think of the TV show Billions where they

[00:48:51] Carol: Oh, I love billions.

[00:48:53] Adam: had, you know, they were, she has, she was a staff therapist for a, an investment company.

[00:48:59] Carol: Yeah. She gets 'em in their like in their like focus zone.

[00:49:02] Adam: yeah. They're headspace to, to go make billions of dollars. Alright.

[00:49:07] Merch Update

[00:49:07] Adam: So, yeah, news on the merch front, we got our red bubble account back. So same place. you can go to workingcode.dev/merch and it'll take you to the place.

[00:49:16] Adam: Basically one of our lovely listeners, who participates in our Discord, and is a patron, was talking to me and basically he offered to, file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau about Red Bubble. And and he did so cuz I told him, you know, I was okay with it. I, I, the only, I hadn't thought of it.

[00:49:33] Adam: And then when he brought it up I was like, yeah, I mean, we probably should, but I just don't feel like I have the motivation. I don't feel like anything's gonna come from it. So if you want to go ahead and he did, and then like the next day, we got, a

[00:49:45] Tim: Wow, the next

[00:49:46] Adam: yeah, I, I dunno if it was the next day, it might have been two days later, but it was pretty.

[00:49:50] Adam: that we got an email like, oh, okay, we see that your, account was suspended in error and we're gonna reinstate you. And so, you know, they, they still aren't like admitting that they really did anything wrong other than it was an error. Right? They didn't, they don't say how we got on their radar in

[00:50:07] Tim: Or what the thing was. Yeah,

[00:50:09] Adam: whatever.

[00:50:10] Adam: But we got our account back. We got the, the little bit of money from the first time, that we were selling merch. So that's nice. and our merch is now once again available without having to do any extra work to set it up somewhere else. So that's nice also, it came up in the Discord. I don't remember who said it or I would give them credit so you know who you are, you get the credit.

[00:50:26] Adam: But, I think we need to add a, gifts are my love language sticker.

[00:50:31] Tim: I like it.

[00:50:33] Adam: So, that's something that has come up on the podcast, and I think that's a, that's gonna be a good one. I like that. so we'll get that added, workingcode.dev/merch can get your, I hear I'll point mine. Nobody, listening will be able to see it, but I'm, I, I'm pointing my laptop up so that you can see I got a, a working code wall clock up there, with our caricature faces on it.

[00:50:51] Adam: Anyway,

[00:50:51] Tim: so,

[00:50:52] Patreon

[00:50:52] Adam: This episode, working Code was brought to you by the Trash Man, the new Wolverine movie. And listeners like you , if you're enjoying the show and you wanna make sure that we can keep putting more of whatever this is out into the universe, then you should consider supporting us on Patreon.

[00:51:05] Adam: Our patrons cover our recording and editing costs, and we couldn't do this every week without them. Special thanks of course to our top patrons, Monte and Giancarlo. new this week with a new patron. Tim, do you wanna try to pronounce that one?

[00:51:17] Tim: Nope.

[00:51:18] Adam: so I'll, I'll give it a go. L Lutz or Lutz?

[00:51:20] Adam: Lesser, lesser. thank you very much for joining up. if you wanna join, you can go to patreon.com/working code Pod,

[00:51:27] Thanks For Listening!

[00:51:27] Adam: your homework this week, I'm gonna go, I wanna, I still wanna build up our Discord, so if you wanna come hang out with the community, you can find us at workingcode.dev/discord is just like Slack except better.

[00:51:37] Adam: Come hang out and chat with other listeners and with, the hosts. I even saw Ben on there the other day. , he doesn't do anything. Yeah, for real. I mean, it was just like two things. He, he popped in, he says his piece, and then he left. But, he did

[00:51:49] Tim: Hey, I just ordered, I just ordered from Red Bubble a Desk pad with, with our working code POD logo on it.

[00:51:57] Carol: No

[00:51:58] Adam: faces. Nice. Cool. let's see. I'm just gonna plug to, you know, if if you have questions that you want us to answer or if you want to submit a, a book suggestion for a book club episode, you can go to workingcode.dev/ama. That'll take you to the GitHub repo.

[00:52:13] Adam: Where you can, file an issue to, to, act as a question or your suggestion for the show. and also of course, obviously if you would like to hear your own lovely voice on the show, you can use your phone to record a voice memo and email that to us at WorkingCodePod@gmail.com. That's gonna do it for us this week.

[00:52:31] Adam: We'll catch you next week. And until then,

[00:52:33] Tim: Remember, your heart matters even if you don't order for bread and bubble, but we'd really like you to

[00:52:39] Carol: Goodnight guys.

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