006: Hopes for 2021

Oxford Dictionary included "doomscrolling" in their "word of the year" report for 2020; we're all feeling pandemic fatigue; many people still believe in wide-spread election fraud; the Georgia senate race was a nail-biter; and - oh yeah - we recorded this show the day after the storming of the United States capitol building.

It's all been more-than-a-bit surreal.

But, in the face of such physically and emotionally trying times, we look forward to a new year of possibility. Whether it's taking control of our finances, finding ways to be more active, building up our personal brand, or becoming the blacksmiths that we always knew we could be, the crew shares their personal and professional / technical goals for this burgeoning new year. As the Phoenix rose from the ashes, so too - we hope - 2021 will rise from the smoldering dumpster fire of 2020.

We'd also like to give a huge shout-out and thank you to Monte Chan for being our first Patreon supporter! You are a beautiful, beautiful person; and we hope to make you proud!

Your hosts

Follow the show! Our website is workingcode.dev and we're @WorkingCodePod on Twitter & Instagram. New episodes weekly on Wednesday.

Triumphs & Fails

Notes & Links


Spot an error? Send a pull request on GitHub.

[00:00:00] Ben: I'm looking at Carol with her arms behind her back, and I don't know if I have the flexibility to do what she's doing.

[00:00:06] Carol: I'm holding my other arms.

[00:00:10] Ben: I could like, sorta do it. It hurts my, ow, actually, it hurt my shoulder.

[00:00:14] Adam: This is great content for a podcast.

[00:00:22] Adam: Okay, here we go. It's show number six for January the 20th, 2021. Uh, which will be inauguration day when this comes out. So, uh, if we make it that far. Um, and, uh, on today's show, we're going to be talking about some hopes for 2021.

[00:00:46] Adam: Maybe some goals. We'll see how that goes. But, of course, uh, up first, triumphs and fails. I think, uh, this week, Tim, I'm going to come to you first. What do you got for us? A triumph or a fail? I would call it a triumph.

[00:00:58] Tim: You know, the bar is pretty low, uh, but, you know, everything that went on this week, of course, when we were recording this yesterday was the day where, uh, the Capitol building in Washington was breached for the first time since the war of 1812.

[00:01:13] Tim: And, uh, I gotta admit, I, I was not good yesterday and today. Yeah. My triumph is I didn't just curl up in a ball and hide and rock in a corner and suck my thumb as the world felt like it was burning around me. So I'm, I'm all here for small wins and that I did something yesterday in the day.

[00:01:34] Adam: That's good. I, uh, go ahead.

[00:01:37] Tim: I got to thank you for being the, I mean. You, you, me, and Ben and Carol were all on the discord and just kind of chatting a little bit as all that was happening in real time. It kind of kept me tethered to reality a bit.

[00:01:49] Adam: Yeah, a little sane. It was good to have some people to It was a little bit, uh, serendipitous.

[00:01:57] Adam: I, uh, was working on a project in the, in the woodshop, uh, in the evening after things had calmed down a little bit. And I was listening to an audio book, the latest book from Cory Doctorow. And the book was winding down and there was just this little passage that I thought was like so perfect for, for how I was feeling.

[00:02:17] Adam: And I was, you know, A, I was grateful for, um, having the project to focus on to take my mind off of everything that's going on in the world. But, um, the, the passage that I was thinking of was, um, you know, somebody's going through a lot. It's, it's a cyber security themed book, but, um, she's going through a lot and she says, I'm not okay, but I'm going to be okay.

[00:02:37] Adam: I'm coping, but I have a lot to cope with. I thought, like, that was a very good way to describe how I was feeling last night. It was relative for a

[00:02:45] Carol: lot of us.

[00:02:46] Adam: Yeah, so. One, um,

[00:02:50] Ben: one clarification that I've heard in the past, which I think was always, uh, maybe not how I phrased things in my mind, was, uh, there's the common phrase of, of always do your best.

[00:03:02] Ben: I heard someone explain it to me. I wish I could remember where this was from. It was from a podcast, I think, or an audio book where someone says that you should always do your best, but what best is changes from day to day. And, you know, yesterday I think is a perfect example of that. Like, we were doing our best, but that best was significantly degraded from what it might be normally.

[00:03:22] Tim: Right. How about you, Adam? What's your triumph or

[00:03:26] Adam: fail? Um, so I'm going to take a similar tack, a similar triumph. Basically, I've managed to have a relatively productive first week back from my holiday PTO, first week back to work for the year. Um, so I guess just kind of laying things out here. On Monday, Slack went down for most of the day, most of the morning.

[00:03:48] Adam: On Tuesday, there was the runoff Senate election in Georgia that was, you know, Uh, sort of controlling the zeitgeist. And then Wednesday was, yeah, you know, Wednesday. Um, and, but despite it all, I did manage to get a little bit of work done. Um, in between doomscrolling Twitter. And, and chatting about it with you guys and my coworkers and my family.

[00:04:08] Adam: So much doomscrolling. Yes, but I did manage to get a little bit of work done here and there. It was nice to, uh, have the distraction of work.

[00:04:18] Tim: 2020 Oxford English Dictionary added the word doomscrolling to the dictionary this year.

[00:04:23] Adam: I'm not surprised. True story. It makes sense. So, Carol, what do you got this week?

[00:04:27] Adam: Do you have a triumph or a fail?

[00:04:29] Carol: Yeah. So I have a triumph for us as a podcast. I'm going to go off of the political realm and all of the doom. I have great news. Okay. So I walked upstairs last night and was talking to my son only to find him and his best friend were listening to our podcast. And I should say the best friend is who I have picked out for him to marry.

[00:04:55] Carol: So fingers crossed this all works. She loves. The podcast and they're 15 and 16 right now. So, I mean, they love listening to it. They're like, we don't really get everything, but it's just really good to hear like how your world functions right now. And I was just. I was in awe that a 15 and 16 year old are listening to our podcast and love it.

[00:05:15] Carol: So, that's

[00:05:16] Adam: awesome.

[00:05:18] Carol: They listen to the entire, everything we've put out. Oh, cool.

[00:05:22] Adam: That's quite a lot. I haven't even done that.

[00:05:24] Carol: So, they also have a favorite person on the show, I've been told. Uh oh. All right. Do we want to know or not?

[00:05:31] Adam: I definitely got to know now. Yeah. They like Ben. Surprise, surprise. Don't we all?

[00:05:39] Carol: They're like, his voice, it's just so nice. It's the

[00:05:42] Ben: mic. It's this mic that Adam convinced me to get.

[00:05:45] Adam: Yeah. In person. You sound good, man. Yeah.

[00:05:47] Tim: You should do ASMR videos.

[00:05:52] Adam: All right. So, so, well, hang on. So you're, um, you said that was your 16 year old, right? Mm hmm. Yeah. Um, and. We've talked before about how you have a son in college. That's obviously not, I don't know. I don't want to say obviously not the son in college, but, uh, uh, I don't know what, likely not the son in college.

[00:06:09] Adam: He's not, yeah. Okay. And I know your older son that's in college is doing computer science. Is your younger son also into technology, computer science stuff or? Oh

[00:06:17] Carol: yeah. He's, he has been like writing code for a while. He's not doing anything right now. But when he was younger, I actually came home and found that he had like broke through some of my security settings, like on our just Windows computer and had turned my like computer, just PC into a Minecraft server and had it open and people were playing on it with him.

[00:06:37] Carol: Nice. And I was like, do you understand? This isn't set up for people to be on it. Right. Mommy's checking account is like on here. Let's not do this.

[00:06:46] Adam: Yeah. That's like the 20, the 2000s version of kids say the darndest things.

[00:06:50] Carol: Yeah. I was like, come on. And then we, um, I blocked everything on the like.

[00:06:59] Carol: It's pretty crazy. and stuff. And lots of things were blocked. And he figured out that all it was doing was a DNS lookup through it. So he bypassed our DNS and went to Google.

[00:07:08] Adam: I know what he was looking at. You know, I've been there. Kids are little hackers, man. I was like, Peyton's

[00:07:17] Carol: never on his computer. Now I know why.

[00:07:21] Carol: He is on it. So yeah, he loves technology. I think that's kind of just kind of how they've always been though.

[00:07:28] Adam: Yeah. I think one day we should

[00:07:31] Tim: do a show where all of us kind of talk about how we got started, you know, our, our, our, our, our, our origin stories. I think

[00:07:38] Adam: that'd be good. Definitely. Yeah, I'd be down.

[00:07:42] Carol: All right. What about you, Ben? What you got?

[00:07:44] Ben: I have a Triumph and, uh, on a previous podcast, I think I had mentioned that at work we had a deployment freeze during the holidays. So basically I think it was from like December 24th. To January 2nd, we couldn't deploy in case there was an incident and there weren't enough people around to help put out fires.

[00:08:03] Ben: So, I was working, but I was doing a lot of little things, mostly around deleting old code and removing old feature flags and just finding ways to clean up and leave the code base a little leaner. And, uh, finally, Monday comes around, deploy freeze over, and I have literally, like, I think 20 something different branches in Git.

[00:08:25] Ben: that I had to start deploying. So, I started, and right after my first deploy, Slack went down, which was kind of a pain, because we at work, we actually use a Slack bot to manage our deployments, so I have to, in Slack, tell the Slack bot to start deploying a particular service. So, that was a little bit of a bummer, but then it finally came back on, and I've literally been deploying back to back code changes since Monday, and I think I finished sometime this morning.

[00:08:54] Ben: Uh, so it was pretty epic. I don't think I caused any problems. Yay. So that was exciting. There was a lot of, um, merge conflicts when I had to rebase. 'cause I had, yeah, I had all these like 20 branches, but they were all based on the main branch. Mm-hmm. So as I started merging things back in, especially 'cause a lot of it was deleting old code, a lot of the, the rebasing on the main branch had conflicts.

[00:09:16] Ben: So I had to resolve those conflicts. But anyway. Everything's done. Got all that code out. Very exciting. I feel like I'm starting with a clean plate ready to move

[00:09:25] Carol: forward. It's a good way to start the year. There's like, just go productive out the door.

[00:09:32] Ben: And on top of that, I don't know if we've touched on this before, but deleting code is some of the most satisfying work I do.

[00:09:39] Ben: We

[00:09:39] Adam: have, yeah. Love it. Love it. So, uh, no charge for the, uh, or maybe, you know what, I tell you what, I'll send you a bill for the chaos monkey taking down your, your Slack. Finding those holes in your process, man.

[00:09:53] Ben: It's so funny. I, you know, as, as a. As an adult that doesn't have school, and as someone who works remotely, there's very little opportunity to have a snow day.

[00:10:03] Ben: Uh, and slack going down feels like as close as I'm going to get for a long time, where I'm like, uh, pants off, run me around.

[00:10:14] Tim: Unfortunately, we use Teams, so we didn't get that luxury. Now, if GitHub went down,

[00:10:21] Ben: we'd be hosed.

[00:10:24] Carol: Yeah, I sent someone on my team a message and said, Is Slack still down? So later, they were like, Did you really ask me if Slack was down?

[00:10:34] Carol: I was like, Your icon was green. I thought maybe you were getting messages.

[00:10:40] Adam: Yeah, you know, nobody did. All right, I guess let's move on to our topic for the day. Um, it is 2021 now, so it's a good opportunity to take a glimpse into the future and start to think about some hopes for the year, maybe personal things, your career, uh, maybe even for your company, depending on how invested you are personally in your company, and uh, maybe even just for technology in general.

[00:11:07] Adam: So, um, who wants to kick it off?

[00:11:10] Carol: So one of my personal goals last year was to actually get better at just knowing where my money goes. Cause I always, you know, it comes in, it goes out, everything's good. It balances who cares. So I, um, actually got, you need a budget last year. And went through and have been using it and it does really, really good.

[00:11:27] Carol: But I'm excited for this year to see how every month like turned out last year and to see like where I end up spending extra at and actually having a lot of data now to use, like to have a year's worth of data with the, you need a budget so that I can actually put more away. I think ultimately when I see it.

[00:11:45] Carol: What is, so what is you need a budget? Um, it's just a budgeting software, but it's very strict about when money comes in and when money goes out. So look, I can't budget for everything to be paid at the first of the month if there's not money there for it to be budgeted, to like be spent. So it'll show negative and it's like, oh, you have to go correct this.

[00:12:04] Carol: So then take your mortgage payment out because your mortgage doesn't go till the 15th and now you're back on budget. So it makes sure that you're only spending what you have available to you. And then it gets you to where it goes, hey, you have, you know, 600 left. Go move that to a savings account and don't put it.

[00:12:21] Carol: Don't just leave it in your budget, you know, like, go get rid of it. And

[00:12:24] Adam: isn't that one of those tools where like you give it access to your credit cards and your bank account, it kind of scoops up that data and makes you categorize it so that you don't miss everything.

[00:12:33] Carol: Yep. Up front, it's a lot of work because every transaction has to have a category.

[00:12:38] Carol: But if you don't have a category, you don't know where your money's going. Like I didn't realize until probably the summer, how much money I spend at a liquor store,

[00:12:48] Carol: until I did go actually create a liquor store category. Cause I was like, man, that's not eating out. That's not groceries. That's not family things. That's. So yeah, it's really cool. So I highly suggest it if someone wants to really see where your money's

[00:13:04] Adam: going. I'll throw one out there, um, for personal stuff.

[00:13:10] Adam: Um, so when Ben knows this, uh, at the beginning of 2020. Um, I was kind of, like, pushing real hard on my, my health and personal fitness type stuff. And, uh, I asked Ben to be my accountability buddy for, for going to the gym. Because, you know, like, I don't, I don't know anybody around here that goes to the gym, at least not the same gym that I was going to.

[00:13:33] Adam: Um, so, you know, we would just, you know, chat over, like, Twitter DMs and, and check in with each other, make sure we were going to the gym. And, and the, when COVID hit, I stopped going to the gym. And then. You know, in the beginning, we thought it was just going to be a few weeks, maybe a few months, and I was kind of extending, extending, and finally, I was like, just shut it down.

[00:13:54] Adam: Cancel my membership. I'll come back when it makes sense to do that. And, um, I've always been the type of person that like, I enjoy working out, but I have to leave my house. I can't, you know, go work out in the living room. I need that scenery change. I need the equipment. I need, you know, whatever, something about not being in my living space helps me.

[00:14:17] Adam: feel motivated to do it. And so because I wasn't going to the gym, because it wasn't safe to do that, I really backslid a ton on my personal health stuff this year. So I'm hoping, um, you know, between the vaccine and just, uh, taking it serious that, like, this is not coming back, you know, within weeks, uh, you know, so I have to find ways to, to take my health seriously.

[00:14:42] Adam: Go for more walks and, you know, find other things to do that are physical.

[00:14:48] Ben: And, uh, Adam learned firsthand that I am a terrible, terrible communicator. So he was very patient. Right now you have me as a captive audience, so I'm very attentive, but this is a lifelong challenge for me, uh, dealing with people.

[00:15:03] Ben: And, um, I'm not good about it. Like, people will message me, my family will send me text messages, my mom will leave me messages on my phone like, you don't have to be afraid to pick up. And I just like, I get this like tunnel vision and I, and I forget other things happen. So Adam put up with it pretty, pretty

[00:15:23] Adam: admirably.

[00:15:24] Adam: I wasn't going to call you out, but yeah. How about you,

[00:15:28] Tim: Ben?

[00:15:28] Ben: This is minor, but, um, I wanted to pay more attention to my personal brand, just in terms of my online identity. I write a lot, which is part of my personal brand, but what I mean is like the avatar I use, for example, I think it's like 10 years old.

[00:15:50] Ben: I'm not that man anymore. And, uh, and like, I don't think I've updated my LinkedIn profile in like a decade and there's just a lot of things that, uh, you know, if someone were to look me up, it's just not professional, uh, in terms of. I don't know, maybe not professional is not the right word, but like, I just want to curate more.

[00:16:10] Ben: I want to, I want to pay attention to who I am online a little bit more than I have in a while. Uh, whether that's updating my LinkedIn, you know, maybe refreshing my website a little bit, updating my avatar. Um, I don't know. I don't know what it entails exactly, but things of that nature, maybe putting a presentation together for fun.

[00:16:31] Carol: You definitely need to get more current because now you have, you know, at least two teenagers Googling you. Yeah,

[00:16:38] Adam: you got to get it on that TikTok, Ben. Yeah.

[00:16:42] Carol: Oh, that would be hilarious.

[00:16:43] Adam: Oh,

[00:16:44] Ben: God. I don't know anything about that stuff. I still have yet to understand how Instagram works. I've tried to use it several times and... I just keep getting login pages and

[00:16:57] Ben: I keep assuming it's like Facebook, but I guess it's not like Facebook. It's very confusing for me.

[00:17:02] Adam: Get off my lawn. Tim you got anything personal for the year? Hopes and dreams? Personal,

[00:17:10] Tim: uh, mine, well, I mean, 2020 set such a low bar, it's, it's by hopes and goals for, for 2021, uh, really kind of picking up some of the things that we dropped because of 2021.

[00:17:24] Tim: Um, at the beginning of the pandemic, I had my kids, I have a 15 year old daughter and a 17 year old son, and... You know, I had them, I said, you know, we can't just be doing nothing all year. Uh, tell me some things you want to accomplish. And my son wanted, he's already, uh, we're members of a blacksmithing guild.

[00:17:44] Tim: Uh, and so he wanted That's cool. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. He, he wanted to advance his blacksmithing, so we bought him a, a forge and an anvil and some tools, but Nice. Haven't really. Done anything with it. So I want to pick that back up. Um, get him making some knives, um, and some, some, you know, key chains and things like that.

[00:18:05] Tim: What's cool is we've got like free source of iron. We live by the rear, like a railroad track is like. Like, not even a quarter of a mile down the road, and we just go down there and pick up, uh, railroad spikes that have come loose. Nice. And you can forge them into knives. Giving these tracks away? Yeah.

[00:18:21] Adam: I mean, we'll leave them around.

[00:18:24] Adam: When we read

[00:18:24] Carol: about a train derailment near... Well,

[00:18:27] Adam: no,

[00:18:27] Tim: they've already come loose. They've already come loose. We don't pull them out. And then my daughter, she wanted to learn how to shoot a rifle. So she's been, uh, we've been practicing that. So, so getting back into, into shooting. That's, that's the personal

[00:18:39] Adam: one.

[00:18:40] Adam: Okay, well, maybe this is a good time to throw in that, uh, on Instagram and on Twitter, on our WorkingCodePod accounts, uh, we had thrown out that we would like, uh, you know, any hopes from our listeners for the year, and we got one from Mark Drew. And he said somehow he wants to see us all again this year.

[00:19:03] Adam: And I mean, I think the, I think the implication there is that, uh, we hope that conferences come back and that we can all get back together again. And man, that, that would be high on my list. That'd be

[00:19:14] Ben: awesome. I'll tell you, I was listening to an interview with a, a guy who runs an event catering an organization, company, and he was saying that it events get planned really far in advance.

[00:19:28] Ben: Mm-hmm. , like, there's all kinds of insurance and contracts and down payments and all this stuff that you have to put in place. And he, what his take on it was, you know, coming into the end of 2020. He's like, I can't look at August of 2021 and be confident that if I put down 50, 000 for an event space, that it's not going to go nowhere.

[00:19:49] Ben: But I think, um, you know, the fear, I think, is that, uh... Even when the vaccines get distributed sufficiently and things calm down, like, are there going to be people who have already planned and ahead of time to get those conferences rolling? It's going to be very interesting.

[00:20:05] Adam: Yeah, I think there have been a lot of conferences that managed to pull off something virtual this year, and I think probably the smart play is to do that again in 2021 for, The safe bet and then hope that, you know, by mid 2021, they can start planning something in person for 22, to say, but yeah.

[00:20:24] Adam: Yeah, we, we,

[00:20:25] Tim: for our marketing budget, we had to build our budgets for, for 2021. And, uh, you know, my marketing budget for 2021, all the in person trade shows and things that we normally do is totally been reallocated to, you know, virtual. Type things. I'm going to try to host a hackathon this year for our company and see, see who shows up.

[00:20:45] Adam: Internal to your company hackathon? External.

[00:20:47] Tim: Okay. Sort of as a marketing ploy to, to get, you get people to sign up for the hackathon, have them build something with your API. And then, you know, they, they win, you can showcase what they have and then they win some money, but hopefully they also show their boss and they're like, Hey, look what we can do.

[00:21:03] Tim: Ours is all financial APIs. Um, so it's like, Hey, we can do this and, you know, transfer money and do all this kind of stuff using this. Um, yeah, kind of just incentivize them to use the API.

[00:21:14] Adam: Right. Exposure with it. Yeah. Yep. Okay, did anybody else have anything personal that they wanted to talk about before we moved on to a different category?

[00:21:22] Adam: I do want

[00:21:23] Ben: to mention just how casually Tim mentioned that he bought a Forge for his son. Because when you say Forge, I, the only mental model that I have is watching middle aged... You know, like shows about Vikings and blacksmiths and fire. And can you, can you just go to Home Depot and buy a forge? I mean, does that, is that like a thing you can just get?

[00:21:48] Ben: No, well,

[00:21:48] Tim: we got it off Amazon and it's, it's small. It's a, it's about the size of a microwave oven. It's got propane, it's fed with propane tanks and it's lined.

[00:22:00] Adam: Devil Forge or something like that? Yeah, Devil

[00:22:02] Tim: Forge, yeah. It's not that brand, but it's that type, type thing, the Devil Forge. Right.

[00:22:06] Adam: So. Yeah, it's just like a little steel box lined with fire bricks and it's got some, works for you to stick in some propane torches.

[00:22:12] Adam: The real

[00:22:13] Tim: cost is the anvil. Those anvils are expensive. They're very expensive.

[00:22:16] Adam: Well, I mean, living so close to a railroad yard, did you think about making one out of a railroad tie? Making an anvil, you can't make it, they're extremely hard to make. How did you You have

[00:22:26] Carol: lots of free

[00:22:27] Adam: time now, though. Right.

[00:22:29] Adam: What

[00:22:29] Ben: does an anvil even weigh?

[00:22:31] Tim: It depends. The one we got is about 300 pounds.

[00:22:35] Ben: Is that, is that like a white glove delivery where guys actually have to bring it into the house for you?

[00:22:42] Tim: Not like white glove, but it's like on the back of a semi truck. Holy cow.

[00:22:47] Adam: Yeah. I had no it on an anvil stand or is it on the ground?

[00:22:51] Adam: Like on a stump? There are stands.

[00:22:53] Tim: Yeah, there are stands for it. No, we just, we have it on a stump. Okay. Yeah. A wooden stump. And if, you know, I guess I can push his website. He has YouTube videos. So, MaxCunningham. com. So, Max, he's got, uh. YouTube videos of our progressive being as part of this, um, this, uh, guild.

[00:23:13] Tim: In fact, several, I don't know if you've, any of you seen the show, uh, Forged in Fire. We've had several of our, our, our one guy, one, um, several and several have, uh, have been on the show.

[00:23:23] Adam: Oh, cool. That's cool. Yeah, I've never watched it, but I've heard of it. Yeah, so, I mean, I watch a lot of, uh, Alex Steele's videos, so I'm familiar with the Yeah, that's what got

[00:23:31] Tim: my son interested in it, was watching Alex

[00:23:33] Adam: Steele.

[00:23:34] Adam: Yeah. Which reminds me that this episode of Working Code is brought to you by Raid Shadow Legends. He wants to tell you how long he's been playing and enjoying the game. That's right. Here's

[00:23:45] Tim: my favorite character, guys. Look at her. Look at her. She's wearing, she's wearing a metal bikini. How cool is that?

[00:23:53] Ben: There is a, a YouTube video. I don't know if this is the guy that you mentioned. I don't, I don't know much about the forging world. I apologize. Um, but there, there's a video. It's, it's amazing. I, I found it very captivating. It's this guy and he's like making mud and they take the mud. He makes it into bricks and then he uses the bricks to make like a fire pit.

[00:24:14] Ben: And then he uses the fire to make. I don't know.

[00:24:17] Adam: Primitive technology.

[00:24:18] Ben: Yeah, and he just keeps evolving his approach until he actually builds this little encased thing that has fire in it and he's melting metal. I mean, it's amazing. It's like an eight minute video. Yeah,

[00:24:28] Tim: he, uh, he disappeared. He stopped making videos and I got worried.

[00:24:32] Tim: So I like was looking on Reddit and I found out he's actually done a deal with a cable TV show. So he's going to have his own cable TV show. That's cool. Where he's, uh, yeah, I'm looking forward to that.

[00:24:43] Adam: Cool, cool. So, technology. Real technology. Technology! Our technology. So, actually, sort of, as we, uh, transition out of personal stuff, we were talking a little bit about events, and that made me think of, um, what was supposed to happen for my company for 2020.

[00:24:58] Adam: It was supposed to be sort of a breakout year for us. We had a lot of business lined up for events, uh, so, event registration and check in software, um, very highly... customized for the types of events that colleges and universities run and the way that they like to run them and the way they build their packages and that sort of thing has for a long time been a big part of our business and we had a whole bunch of events lined up and a whole bunch of new customers lined up for 2020 that all just kind of had to get put on hold and we're super glad and fortunate that we didn't have to have any cutbacks or layoffs this year, uh, but, uh, it was not the year that we thought we were going to have.

[00:25:39] Adam: And so I'm personally hopeful that even if we don't get a bunch of events lined up throughout 2021, maybe we'll start to see the Ducks getting in a row for 22. And get to have that breakout year that we were all preparing for.

[00:25:55] Carol: Yeah, that has to be a hard hit.

[00:26:00] Adam: It was going to be a big growth year. So, just to, you know, I was personally just really keyed up and ready to like, watch this growth happen and do what I could to keep the momentum there and then.

[00:26:12] Adam: It all just deflated all at once.

[00:26:14] Ben: I have a, uh, I, from a, from a learning standpoint, I try to pick like one big hairy goal for the, for the year, uh, which usually, you know, I can be pretty strong on through February at least. And, uh, this year I really want to learn more about design systems and building reusable.

[00:26:34] Ben: front end componentry. I feel pretty confident in my ability to write CSS and like decently competent in putting HTML together and building an application, but it's a lot of copy pasting. It's a lot of one off componentry. Um, I have very, very little mental model. for how to build something that I can then stamp out in a bunch of different places.

[00:27:01] Ben: And, um, you know, you look, you look up months later and you're shipping seven megabytes of, uh, CSS, which nobody wants to ship to a, to a phone. And, uh, So I really just want to, I want to figure out how to do that because I've like, I've dabbled, I've tried to read books, I read, uh, Atomic Design by Brad Frost, which was very interesting.

[00:27:26] Ben: Um, I've, I've gone through the Google material docs on, on how they put components together. And it's one of those things where when it's super low level, like you think of a button, I can understand a button, but then the second you combine that button with anything else or with a combination of other buttons, and I have no idea how you.

[00:27:44] Ben: Build something that makes that, uh, abstract, but also convenient and also flexible and, uh, that's my, that's my big goal for the year is to try and figure out how to, how to close in on some of that knowledge gap.

[00:28:01] Carol: Have you picked out anything you're going to write with like Angular, React? Well,

[00:28:06] Ben: we'll do that.

[00:28:07] Ben: At work, I'm still on AngularJS and, uh, like a really early version of AngularJS. Yeah, so it'll mostly be some homegrown, like, not elegant, but also not nothing kind of a solution, but, uh, you know, baby steps,

[00:28:24] Adam: baby steps. Yeah. Have you heard of, um, what is the storybook? That's supposed to be a big help in, in that sort of effort.

[00:28:34] Ben: I think we actually use Storybook at work. I mean, here's the crazy thing. At work, we have a design system called Helios. I just don't know very much about it. Cause it's not part of the, uh, the application that I work in. I mean, we have people at work who are basically design system experts and I'm, I'm sure I could just get one of them to sit down with me and go through it.

[00:28:56] Ben: Uh. I don't know. Sometimes you just need to muscle through it so you can feel the pain first, I guess. I don't know. How about Carol? What do you got in

[00:29:05] Adam: terms of

[00:29:06] Carol: technology? Ooh, for my tech. So I, um, okay, one of my personal things plays into my tech. So, one of the things I need to do this year is drink a lot more water, because sometimes I will finish working and realize I didn't have any water all day long.

[00:29:21] Carol: So, I want to build, like, just a web app for myself, because I want to learn React, and I want to learn React Native. So, I'm just going to build, like, a simple web app on my own that basically just lets me track simple inputs, just... Water in amounts and stores it, um, and then slowly move that over to an actual app, not anything for people to buy or use, just so that I can get the exposure of like the security side of apps, of, um, the hardware sharing side of that technology that I've never dealt with.

[00:29:52] Carol: And then I'm also very curious about how the data sync works when you use it offline. So I'm like, you know, curious about all that stuff. So I'm going to learn React, React Native and build myself a little. Web app and hopefully an app by the end of the year that just tracks my water intake.

[00:30:10] Adam: Side projects are huge.

[00:30:11] Adam: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:30:13] Carol: I feel like it's something too I could get my kid in on. He would want to do it with me. Cool. Yeah, it'd be fun. What about you, Adam?

[00:30:21] Adam: So, I had a tough time separating personal from web stuff. Like, I don't want to make, I'm not capable of predicting what's going to happen in technology in the future.

[00:30:31] Adam: I just don't have my finger on that pulse. I'm so heads down getting my work done day to day. So busy. So, you know, I don't, I don't see what's coming. Um, in terms of technology, I was thinking about things that I want to learn or things that I need to get better at. And so, I mean, I guess in general, I'm kind of hoping that, um, well, so I guess let me speak from the point of view of, um, motivation.

[00:30:57] Adam: So I'm a huge fan of async await in JavaScript for doing promises instead of callbacks or doing raw promises. I think that async await just makes a whole lot more sense when I try to think through the control flow. But the sort of the First place that I find myself running into frustration with that is not having top level of weight in Node.

[00:31:19] Adam: Um, and so, you know, there's workarounds, but still it would be nice to have top level of weight. Well, I know that sometime in the last couple of versions it became available, but only in certain conditions. I think you have to be using, um, I forget the file extension, but you have to use a certain type of, it's like ES modules, the way that Node does ES modules or something.

[00:31:39] Adam: Um, and then it becomes available. And I'm not sure what other implications that might have. for interacting with other modules. So that's something that I want to get a hold on this year. And sort of related to that, I'm kind of hoping, um, you know, I've read a little bit about ES modules in general, just the, you can like do import from a URL and that just works.

[00:32:01] Adam: So you don't, you could theoretically like import maybe from the NPM CDN instead of having to like NPM install it locally. If you could, uh, I heard somebody mentioned something like that, like streaming dependencies or something like that. Like you require it from or you import it from the URL and then with Webpack or Parcel or Snowpack or whatever it is you're building, your build tool is, um, it would sort of install it locally.

[00:32:26] Adam: Thank you. into the bundle at the time of build, which I thought was kind of a neat idea. Yeah, that sounds pretty cool. So, yeah, for me, that's just sort of the, the, got the lion's share of my horizon right now, ES modules, and what can, what can I do to prepare for that coming? And how can I use that to make my job easier?

[00:32:52] Adam: Yeah, that sounds awesome.

[00:32:54] Ben: Yeah, very interesting. I'm, I, in, in the stuff that I do with Angular, It's all with TypeScript, so it, it has classes and, and um, modules, not modules in the ES sense, but TypeScript modules. And, or I guess Angular modules. So I feel like there's this layer of abstraction between what I use as sort of my JavaScript platform and like what JavaScript can actually do under the hood a little bit.

[00:33:21] Ben: So I'm watching from the outside a lot of people talk about the ES modules and Snowpack, that kind of stuff. Um, I'm curious to see where it goes. I mean, I'm curious to pay attention to the conversation.

[00:33:36] Adam: Yeah. Yeah,

[00:33:38] Carol: I made a note because I want to go look up

[00:33:40] Adam: more. I don't know, when

[00:33:43] Tim: I first started getting exposed more to promises when I started learning Scala, it was just kind of a really different mindset that took a while.

[00:33:53] Tim: I don't even think I still have a full mental model of how promises and futures and all that really, I know how it works. I know how it's supposed to work, but you know, how to make sure that it always works is, is a thing I'm still.

[00:34:10] Adam: The thing that I always struggled with with raw promises is, um, uncaught promise rejections. I would have catches all over the place and still, you know, one would sneak through and I just, I never really truly understood where you actually have to have catches. And somehow async await just, it kind of makes it easy.

[00:34:31] Adam: Makes it easier or easy enough for me.

[00:34:36] Ben: Asynchronous code is great. Synchronous blocking code. It's just so much easier to reason about, in my opinion, and when you have the async await, essentially what you're doing is taking asynchronous code and making it read like it's blocking code, but with asynchronous stuff happening below the surface.

[00:34:55] Ben: I mean, it's, it feels like the best of both worlds.

[00:34:58] Adam: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that I think is very much the intention of it. It's just the only caveat is that, um, you have to do, um, a few things, like you have to wrap it in a tri catch, basically. And um, as long as you do that, then I think that it kind of falls into that mental model.

[00:35:20] Ben: What about Tim? What do you got for, uh, technology stuff? Yeah,

[00:35:24] Tim: so what I like to do... like to break things up into things I want to learn. I always like to have some sort of study project. So things I want to learn in the near term. In other words, something I know that I'm going to be using very shortly.

[00:35:38] Tim: And then something kind of in the midterm, something that I want to. Be knowledgeable about because I think there's a high likelihood that I will need to use it and then a very long term, which is sort of a pie in the sky. Kind of, I want to learn this because I don't know anything really about it. I might possibly never use it or I might, and it would be useful to have that in my, my mental store when it comes around and it could be years off before it ever gets used.

[00:36:05] Tim: Um, in the past that actually has served me well because there's things I learned years ago and then something came up and I'm like immediately I'm like oh yeah that let's you let's I learned about this years ago uh so it's helpful for me so near term I want to deepen my knowledge on Redis. I've installed it.

[00:36:24] Tim: I, I, it's running, but I don't feel I really fully understand how it works. You know, I, I just, I ran the installer and did some commands and it worked. Everything, everything worked great, right? Magic. Yeah. So it's all, you know, PFM. So wanna look at, at Redis a bit more, get more comfortable with, um, Redis Sentinel.

[00:36:44] Tim: So, Redis, many of you know, it's not Reddit, but Redis, it's, uh, you know, it's a structure store, can be used as a database. It's a cache. I'm, I'm mostly using it as a cache and a, and a, a key store. Uh, and, you know, highly available in memory, extremely fast. Um, But, you know, it's, it's, it's completely different than trying to use a relational database or just, uh, a session cache.

[00:37:08] Tim: Um, so getting just a lot more involved in that is my near term goal. Um, my midterm goal is because what we do is in the financial industry, um, just. Recently on today, uh, it's on article, uh, that the cryptocurrency market, uh, Bitcoin in particular, uh, the market value that has hit a trillion dollars for the entire cryptocurrency world.

[00:37:37] Carol: It is booming. It's booming.

[00:37:41] Adam: I'm kicking myself

[00:37:41] Tim: for the, for the, uh, the Bitcoin I sold like six years ago. I could retire.

[00:37:50] Tim: But, uh, so I want to learn a bit more about how cryptocurrency works and how you can build things that, that. That move money, uh, using, uh, whatever sort of cryptocurrency like Bitcoin or Ethereum or all the different ones. Dogecoin.

[00:38:07] Carol: Dogecoin. Dogecoin took a big up

[00:38:10] Tim: today. Yeah. Yeah. All of them are taking a big up.

[00:38:13] Tim: Um, um. Because really kind of looking at the future of money, the only reason people, I don't think people are fully adopting cryptocurrency is just because, you know, people don't have faith in it. And that's really all money is. Money is a faith, is a faith based system. You think about it, I never have cash.

[00:38:35] Tim: Everything is digital, so I'm already using, it's not cryptocurrency, but it's digital currency. And so it's just zeros and ones and that's what cryptocurrency is. It's just, it's not, there's no central bank of some government behind it. So I really just want to look into see how we can utilize that. If nothing else, you know, if you're a financial services company and Bitcoin Cryptocurrency is part of your portfolio.

[00:39:00] Tim: It just makes you look cutting edge, so that's helpful. Um, and also, related to cryptocurrency, but, uh, you know, blockchain, which is what cryptocurrency is built off of, blockchain is essentially a, a contract with proof that the contract has not been broken, um, which a lot of our customers are insurance type entities.

[00:39:22] Tim: And, uh, looking at the idea of using blockchain as insurance contracts, um, If you think about it, you could say you had a car insurance and it, there, the contract was that, you know, you never accelerate quickly or brake quickly. You drive safely. You might, you have a something that monitors your car. And if you fulfill the contract and have this under a certain limit of, um, uh, bad actions in your car, you, you reach a certain premium discount.

[00:39:55] Tim: Well, that could all be done automatically. using blockchain to verify and certify all that stuff. So I really want to kind of get somewhat more familiar with that. And then finally, AI. AI is my long term one. Um, just, I think I need to be aware of it. I think there's a lot of hype in AI right

[00:40:13] Adam: now, but I think robots and yeah, yeah.

[00:40:17] Adam: That video was awesome. Yeah, that video was awesome.

[00:40:21] Tim: So those are my, my three things that, uh, my, I hope and plan to get into more.

[00:40:28] Ben: Now ai. So, so I've heard the term ai, but then I've also heard what, I've also heard the term machine learning. Mm-hmm. And these are, these are related, but not necessarily the same thing.

[00:40:40] Ben: Uh, I don't know. It, it's, it's, I hear people talk about it. It's very far over my head.

[00:40:46] Tim: Yeah. It's over my head and I don't like it being over my head. So, , that's, you know, I, I'm with you. I'm, I'm gonna be looking at, you know, Amazon has, um, it's in their AI portfolio, but it is, it's machine learning, is they have tools for, for that.

[00:41:00] Tim: So just using those tools, because we already use tons of Amazon services. So why not just check out another one while you're there?

[00:41:08] Carol: I think it's

[00:41:09] Adam: Adam's turn. Before we leave tech, uh, I was thinking about some other stuff, like just thinking about the things that I need to learn, um, and the things that, um, I've seen start to do well for me and my team that I really want to see.

[00:41:23] Adam: Like ramp up and and hopefully become sort of like a force multiplier for us. Um. I guess the force multiplier thing that I'm thinking of is we have had some recent success um, and it's a really small JavaScript based repository, but we added some tests. We've always had decent tests to it, but we sort of rounded out the tests and we started using Dependabot.

[00:41:44] Adam: So it's a, it's a Node. js repository and that means in general, I guess not as a As a rule, but as a rule of thumb, um, that there's a lot of dependencies and, and those dependencies get out of date, uh, continuously and it's hard to stay on top of them. So Dependabot, um, will, you can integrate it with your repository or give it access and it's a free service from GitHub.

[00:42:07] Adam: Um, and, uh, basically what it does is it watches your package JSON, or I think it's, um, compatible with like Python, PIP and, and Ruby and, um, PHP and whatever, everything else. Um, but basically it watches your, your lock file to say, these are the dependencies that I'm on. Um, and it looks for new versions of those things and it says, oh, okay, there's a new version of this dependency.

[00:42:31] Adam: Let me go make a branch, install that new version and run your tests and give you the results. And so I can, and what it does is. Okay, and when that happens, it also, for that branch, it creates, it creates a pull request and says, okay, here's the test results for this, and if they're passing, then you just, all you have to do is go in and click the green button, the test pass, so everything's fine, and we can merge that, and now my dependencies are up to date, um.

[00:42:56] Adam: It does one branch for every dependency. Um, so if you have, like, five things that get updated on the same day, then you end up with five pull requests to merge, but it's not that big of a deal. Um, and then, you know, when things do break, then you get that, like, that notification. Oh, there's a new version of the thing, and it breaks your build, so you might want to focus on this pretty soon.

[00:43:14] Adam: Otherwise, you're going to be hating dealing with it when you're now five versions behind, and you have to, like, completely rewrite your tests from the ground up, because your testing framework is, like, breaking changes. Yeah. Yeah, so, uh, we've just kind of like seen that how awesome and powerful that can be and helping us stay on top of those dependencies.

[00:43:35] Adam: And, um, it makes me really gung ho about, uh, testing in general and then on, um, That dependency management stuff, and that kind of gave me the thought, like, okay, well, I have, um, this course that I bought to, to help myself get better at testing, and of course, I haven't finished it because that's what I do, I spend money on things that don't extract the full value from it.

[00:43:57] Adam: I bought the, um, the course called Testing JavaScript from Kent C. Dodds, which is an amazing course, I highly recommend it, um, and I'm only like halfway through it, uh, and, um, One of the things that I saw in Kent's sort of end of the year or beginning of 2021 blog post, whatever it was, is he said that he is kind of going all in on TypeScript.

[00:44:19] Adam: And he's planning on updating his testing JavaScript course to now cover TypeScript. I think originally it covered flow, if I'm not mistaken. Um, and so switching to TypeScript. And, uh, that to me is very interesting. Like I, I believe that types can add a lot of value, but I just haven't had the opportunity to dive into that pool yet.

[00:44:43] Adam: So I'm looking forward to that. And having somebody hold my hand through the process sounds awesome.

[00:44:49] Tim: Having something to manage your project dependencies is pretty cool. For Scala, we use SBT, Simple Build Tool, which you can use managed and unmanaged dependencies. So if you have a jar, you know, you can drop that in.

[00:45:03] Tim: But if it's just a library, you can have it go get the latest each time you build. And then, of course, you got to run your test to make sure nothing broke, but that is great to not have to go manually, particularly when you have hundreds of dependencies.

[00:45:17] Adam: You, so you've mentioned Scala a bunch of times now on the podcast, and I didn't realize it was, it sounds like it's a sort of a major piece of your stack.

[00:45:25] Adam: Is that? Yeah, it is.

[00:45:26] Tim: Yeah. The Scala,

[00:45:27] Adam: Scala play framework. Okay. And this was a, it's like a Java thing, right?

[00:45:32] Tim: Yeah. It, it builds a jar basically at the end of it. Okay. So, cool. But

[00:45:38] Adam: I think you're something I didn't know about you. I

[00:45:41] Ben: think you're gonna enjoy types. Uh, I, I, I use TypeScript with Angular and it's, I love TypeScript.

[00:45:47] Ben: It's, um, the types really force you to think about how things are being used. Yep. Yeah. I guess types also help you catch bugs, but to me that's, that's like the nice to have part. Really, it's the sort of the, the more cognizant it makes you about how everything's put together.

[00:46:06] Adam: Yeah, I'm looking forward to it kind of forcing me to define a, like a structure for my data.

[00:46:13] Adam: So we have an API for our platform that a lot of our customers are consuming, and I can tell that they're coming from strongly typed. Also, Um,

[00:46:33] Adam: API API. Okay, Um, API API API. Okay, Um, API API API API API,

[00:46:46] Carol: API API Starting out, like some of those things that you do, right? So like, someone's like type select star and I'm like, select STAR. And they're like, Oh dear Lord, what are you doing? So I remember like hearing about types and I'm like, Oh, they mean like case sensitive things, right?

[00:47:02] Carol: Like this is letter typing. And then like, I'm like, Oh wow, no, this is like a type of data. So I still remember those points early on where I'm like, well, these don't mean what I think they

[00:47:12] Adam: mean. I remember the day that I learned what case sensitive meant. I was young, you know, I was like an AOL script kiddie, uh, you know, learning about case sensitivity and, and I had no idea.

[00:47:26] Adam: Like I, you know, I saw case sensitive mentioned somewhere and I was like, had no clue what was going on until finally somebody had written it out with like capital C, lowercase a, capital S. Lowercase e, like going back and forth. And I was like, Oh, uppercase and lowercase. Yeah.

[00:47:44] Tim: Yeah. If you're not in a strongly typed language, you gotta, you gotta learn that.

[00:47:47] Tim: What do you mean I have to worry about types? I'm used to duck typing or it figures it out for me.

[00:47:53] Adam: Or it just doesn't work. Or yeah. Or it just doesn't figure it out for me. Right.

[00:47:58] Ben: That was always the, the, the biggest pain point for me on the ColdFusion side. Because CodeFusion is a case insensitive language, primarily.

[00:48:08] Ben: And then when JSON, JavaScript Object Notation, became the de facto standard for data exchange, it feels like suddenly that's a case sensitive context, for the most part. You had this meeting of, of these two completely different worlds and things just did not run smoothly. Lots of friction. Yeah, lots of friction.

[00:48:28] Ben: It's been figured out at this point, but I mean, years in the making. Why are your JSON

[00:48:33] Tim: keys uppercase?

[00:48:35] Ben: Why are you yelling at me? Stop, stop converting it to uppercase.

[00:48:41] Tim: And I don't wanna get too much into the, the political drama, but you know, it's been a bad 2020 and 2021, seven days in, seems like it's, it's trying to, it's trying to raise the bar on awfulness, just what's going on the past few days. But, uh, someone at work, I had, I had to confide in him. I told him, I said, you know, I'm struggling, um, that, that, that the, the attack on the Capitol just, it hit me a lot harder than I ever thought it would.

[00:49:11] Tim: Um, and so she sent me this, I don't know. Can I share my screen? Let's see. Uh, yeah, I can share screen. And I'm going to share computer sound. Maybe they can leave this, maybe we can leave this in or cut it out or whatever. She sent me this, um, this video. It's a, it's a toddler. Let's see.

[00:49:34] Adam: Screen share has started.

[00:49:36] Adam: Do you see my, what do you see? Your emails. Okay. We'll wait for it to get not fuzzy so that we can read your email. Yeah, it's super

[00:49:41] Ben: fuzzy for some reason. Oh, I see

[00:49:44] Adam: me. Oh, that's wrong.

[00:49:46] Tim: In my background. Here we go. All right. So this little girl, she, her mother and daddy were fighting and she sits her mother down and says, you know, basically kind of is trying to encourage her to be nicer.

[00:50:01] Tim: And so let me, tell me if you can hear this. Straight

[00:50:04] Adam: on the middle where my heart is. Yeah, we can hear it.

[00:50:12] Adam: It's something too. And if we live in a world

[00:50:16] Carol: where everyone's being mean... ,

[00:50:20] Adam: everyone said, be a monster and the future .

[00:50:23] Tim: So the last part she said, everyone will be a monster of the future. And that that's what I want for 2021. I want, I want people to know that their heart is something. My heart's something.

[00:50:33] Tim: Your heart's something and it means something. And if everyone's mean, we're just gonna be monsters. So let, let's, let's, let's not be monsters. Okay guys.

[00:50:42] Adam: Agreed. Ditto. Yeah, for sure. She

[00:50:45] Tim: sent me that, I just started

[00:50:46] Adam: bawling.

[00:50:47] Carol: I know, I have like chills on my arm. I'm like, it's so right. Yeah,

[00:50:53] Tim: she goes on for about three minutes.

[00:50:54] Tim: She's just, oh my god, so precious.

[00:50:59] Adam: Should we throw something in there about, uh, Patreon? Sure. Yeah. All right, Tim, tell them about our Patreon.

[00:51:09] Carol: We have

[00:51:10] Adam: Patreon.

[00:51:10] Tim: Apparently Adam has set up a Patreon.

[00:51:13] Adam: Adam, tell us about that. Go fund it. So, oh gosh, you know, I, I hate to, to give anybody the impression that we're begging for money.

[00:51:22] Adam: We're not. But, uh, one thing that we have learned in the first month of doing this is that podcasting is not as inexpensive as it looks. We thought. You know, we throw it out there. If anybody wants to support the show, you can find us on patreon.com/WorkingCodePod. And, uh, there's a couple of different membership levels there.

[00:51:38] Adam: Starts at, like, a dollar a month, and it goes up from there. And some of the perks, um, we have a Discord server that we've been using to communicate amongst ourselves. Um... And I thought, you know, something we could throw out there is, uh, if anybody wants to support us, you could get an invite to our Discord server and to get sort of some access to, to talk to us directly that way and talk to each other.

[00:52:00] Adam: Um, and then, um, some of the things that I've heard other podcasts do for sort of like their top supporters on Patreon is they give them, uh, they'll read off the names of their top supporters and, and some shows they even, you know, some shows it's just, you know, their name, but some people are on some podcasts they'll like.

[00:52:17] Adam: They put in something ridiculous for their name, like Dr. Robotnik or whatever, and they make us say these crazy things. Or if you just want us to try and butcher your name, because you know, none of us are going to be great at pronouncing, unless it's John Smith, I'm not going to be great at pronouncing people's names.

[00:52:31] Adam: So I would be happy to butcher your name on air for, uh, for fun. And profit. We're a long way from ever

[00:52:40] Tim: having profit. We're just keeping the lights

[00:52:43] Adam: on. We thought we'd throw it out there. If it's something that you're interested in, that would be awesome. If it's not, then you know what? Thanks for listening anyway, and don't feel like you have to.

[00:52:51] Adam: Wow, that new

[00:52:52] Tim: England Puritan sense of asking for money is just really coming out here. Yeah.

[00:52:58] Adam: Hey, it's future Adam here. I just need to break in and say a special thank you to Monte Chan who actually hit us up on Twitter and asked about a Patreon before we even announced that we had one. Uh, and so he has been the first to sign up and support us.

[00:53:12] Adam: And so Monte, thank you. Thank you so much. We really appreciate your support.

[00:53:17] Carol: I love all the Twitter feedback we're getting. Yeah, it's been great. How much, like, do you guys love seeing your phone, like, ding

[00:53:23] Adam: now? It's been a wonderful distraction from everything that's going on

[00:53:28] Carol: in the world. I actually turned notifications back on for Twitter.

[00:53:34] Tim: I mean, that's the, uh, Dan Fredricks, what he was saying about... I had no clue that that he, I guess some talk I encourage people to to be more active and he's like yeah I haven't given back to the community so yeah you never know. Changing lives Tim, changing lives. Hey we all change each other's lives in some way.

[00:53:55] Adam: Cool, um, so as we're closing it out here, you know, obviously we want to thank everybody for listening, um, and we really appreciate you sharing it with a friend. Um, word of mouth referrals, I think, is probably the best way, uh, that we're going to grow this show. So, you know, Anything that you can do to support us in that way, we greatly appreciate.

[00:54:13] Adam: Um, it's also my understanding that, uh, giving us a rating on especially Apple Podcasts is going to, uh, help new people find us if they don't know somebody who's already. Uh, listening to the show. So that would be also greatly appreciated. And if you say something interesting in your review, I'd be more than happy to read it on air.

[00:54:34] Adam: And, uh, I guess I should also say like, um, I've looked on Google podcasts and Stitcher and, um, I think even on Spotify and I don't think that there is a way to leave a rating on any of them. I don't think there is on Amazon either. Um, Amazon has podcasts. Yeah. It's news to me. I did not know that. Um, but yeah, yeah.

[00:54:58] Adam: So the other ones, like it's pretty much the only way to rate podcasts right now appears to be through Apple podcasts, or I think you might be able to do it within the iTunes app if you have a Mac. Um, so that kind of stinks, but you know, if you are of the, uh, The eye persuasion, if you have eye before all of your devices, then, and you want to leave us a review there, then that would be great.

[00:55:21] Adam: Um, other than that, I guess we'll catch you guys online. Hit us up at, uh, @WorkingCodePod on Twitter and Instagram and we'll catch you next week.

[00:55:51] Adam: And we're clear. I always want to do like the, the Wayne's World, like three, two.

[00:56:00] Ben: Has Carole seen Wayne's World?

[00:56:02] Adam: Probably not. And she just stares blankly at us. No. Speaking

[00:56:09] Ben: of Wayne's World, let me run something by you. So in Wayne's World, at one point he uses the phrase, Ancient Chinese Secret. He finds her laundry detergent in the basket. And I love the phrase, Ancient Chinese Secret, but I'm not sure if I can, is that like, is that something I can't say anymore?

[00:56:29] Adam: I don't

[00:56:29] Ben: know if that falls. Probably. Probably not. But like, it's not, it's, I don't know if it's offensive because

[00:56:33] Carol: it's... Ask Vincent if it offends him. Okay,

[00:56:36] Ben: yeah. I'll

[00:56:37] Adam: find out for you. Yeah, I mean... You can't ask the white people if you can, if it's racist. My

[00:56:44] Tim: default answer is, if you have to ask, it probably is.

[00:56:47] Carol: That's what my mom used to say about the length of my shorts.

[00:56:50] Adam: Like, are my shorts too short?

[00:56:54] Carol: If you have to ask, the answer is

[00:56:55] Adam: yes.

[00:56:58] Tim: Yep.

[00:56:59] Adam: Stop asking. See, she just stopped asking. There you go. It's

[00:57:05] Tim: like, yeah, my booty's hanging out, but I don't care. Nobody told me.

[00:57:08] Adam: I didn't ask. Nobody complained.

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